the truth about electric cars

[lol-lol]

24 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Indeed. Octopus Intelligent Go now 7 p/kWh off-peak.

 

EV home charging now at 2 p/mile for 3.5 mi/kWh, easily achievable year round average for most EV's. 

 

 

 

Reading the fine print of my price change letter it is not only the lower of both the night and day rates by 14% and 6% respectively but Octopus are extend the Go cheap period from 4 hours to 5 hour. 

 

When one only has a 3.6 kWh charge as I do, ( it was £100 cheaper than the 7 kWh ) the extra hour can mean another 16 miles of extra range added for 31p but also if I want to charge up beyond the 80/85/90 % I usually charge up to I can give the car another 24 miles ie hour and half charge for just over £1. Wow.

 

Begs the question why residuals are quite poor for the Zoe but quite good for the mild hybrid Arkana to trade in for a 87 kWh Scenic with 300 mile plus range. 

Things might change over the next months and year and I can always just hand the Zoe back via the PCP.    

Edited Wednesday at 10:28 by lol-lol

[lol-lol]

45 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Indeed. Octopus Intelligent Go now 7 p/kWh off-peak.

 

EV home charging now at 2 p/mile for 3.5 mi/kWh, easily achievable year round average for most EV's. 

 

 

 

3.5 miles per kWh is my winter energy consumption with the heat pumped fitted Zoe.

 

4 miles per kWh in cool weather, 5 to 10 temperature ambient range.

 

4.5 miles per kWh warm weather energy consumption.

 

5 miles per kWh, or close to, usually 4.9 I am getting, warm weather, no rush, ambling along, but early for the meeting, find the transit van flying along at 70 mph and a bit of drafting Talladega style, well maybe not that close but a respectful aero tow distance.     

 

How about 1.8 or less pence per mile energy costs Octopus Go in combo with Zoe. 

 

[Stonekeeper]

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

The UK is tiny really as far as the world goes.

I hear from Candidates for Westminster that it is the 4th biggest exporter in the World.    Really?

 

There must be a very large amount of whatever coming into the UK as Imports before then being Exported because the UK certainly has not huge amounts of resources or an over abundance of anything has it?

Not even enough energy to power the countries industry or feed the population of the UK.

 

.............

 

Tesco buys fuel from Greenergy that they have partial ownership of or did.

Greenergy that partner with Royal Dutch Shell for importation and storage and the distribution of fuel to many including Branded big retailers and Independents big and small.

 

Fuel OIl, Oils & other ingredients of fuels are traded world wide, so globally, and transported all around the globe.

 

http://greenergy.co.uk

 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book

[Ootohere]

Is there some reason there that the precious metals imported to the UK is not shown? The UK mining for them is not that big an industry is it?   Is it because it does pass through the UK or is traded without ever actually leaving security facilities while in Transit?      I would have thought gas would be a big export for the UK, even just from how much goes to Ireland.    The UK,s exported defence / weapons must just be below the top ten, then lots will be technology and services.   Or used in other figures / groups of exports.  

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:42 by Ootohere

[Winston_Woof]

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Diesel and Petrol is bound to get more expensive as less and less drivers use that form of fuel 

 

 

Not necessarily.

Whilst it may be that  less fuel may need to be refined and that that the refinement costs may need to increase to produce lower volumes  it's also entirely possible that liquid fuel prices may even drop  as demand falls , but all depends on whether or not there's a Petrol Pond 



 

[Ootohere]

The road ,air and marine fuels heavy oils and heating fuels are produced as part of the refining to get the lighter petrochemicals.      Ineos will do as it wishes as far as the UK and refining and cracking plants.  Now the adverts have their products / detergents having the public aware of who this was sponsoring sports / teams.    

Edited Wednesday at 12:47 by Ootohere

[lol-lol]

2 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

Not necessarily.

Whilst it may be that  less fuel may need to be refined and that that the refinement costs may need to increase to produce lower volumes  it's also entirely possible that liquid fuel prices may even drop  as demand falls , but all depends on whether or not there's a Petrol Pond 

 

Your right that oil producers, refinery and hydrocarbon wholesalers and retailers will each look at their margins and markets sizes.

 

What we know is it is more expensive to get oil out of the seabed like the North Sea compared to places like Saudi.

 

The difference can be getting oil from the North Sea is not viable at a production cost of $60 or $70 a barrel but the Middle East can still be profitable at prices as low as $20 a barrel. 

 

Oil for electricity as well as vehicles is in swift decline as both electricity production and using an EV just gets cheaper and cheaper.

 

Those expensive coal, oil and gas producers are and will continue to shut down and oil will fluctuate as production is throttled by producers including OPEC try to keep the price of oil up as high as possible to make a profit. To the marginal producers they will shut down and probably never reopen if prices stay low due to production in the cheap to extract places easily provides enough.

 

Electricity is expected to be almost free due to spiralling downwards production costs and cheaper storage costs.

 

 

 

[Winston_Woof]

20 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Electricity is expected to be almost free due to spiralling downwards production costs and cheaper storage costs.

 

 

 

yes of course it will be, you keep telling yourself that.............

(ok potentially true in some parts of the world that have say things like  geothermal energy)

[PetrolDave]

Just now, Winston_Woof said:

potentially true in some parts of the world that have say things like  geothermal energy

FYI there's a geothermal power station in the centre of Southampton, opposite the John Lewis end of the West Quay shopping centre.

[Winston_Woof]

5 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

FYI there's a geothermal power station in the centre of Southampton, opposite the John Lewis end of the West Quay shopping centre.

interesting  as is how long it has been running (although it is also pretty unique in the UK) : )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme

[Ootohere]

Free electricity right now for many once you have spent a bit on buying some gear for the solar, wind or hydro and that has paid it,s costs back.

 

A couple were asking me about EV,s and charging and costs and then mentioned they have a river running through their property.

That was when it dawned on my the V12 Vantage Carbon we were standing beside was theirs.

[Winston_Woof]

3 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Free electricity right now for many once you have spent a bit on buying some gear for the solar, wind or hydro and that has paid it,s costs back.

 

again though that brings us back to the whole "haves & have nots" scenario.

Yes, there are a group/subset  of "I'm all right Jacks" who  can charge at home  and who (possibly) never/rarely travel anywhere where they cant get home again on the same charge but what about the unwashed masses who would need a electricity  station in the same way ICE drivers need petrol stations today?

Do you honestly think that Electricity supplied by private companies etc (in the same way as petrol/diesel  is) is going to be free???

[Ootohere]

Well i have had a good few thousand miles worth in 3 years so i am alright Jack.

& where i can i still get free charges. 

 

Actually i could not give a damn as i will be rolling coal for years to come if i last that long and be pleased i had a few of the possible best years for using an EV and not for work.

My only regret will be that i never had a Tesla with free supercharging.  

But then i likely would have lost my licence again or wiped my self out by now. 

 

I loved Dodgems when younger, and this is what driving an EV feels like.  Just lacks the sparks and some of the noise. 

Edited Wednesday at 13:44 by Ootohere

[lol-lol]

39 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

yes of course it will be, you keep telling yourself that.............

(ok potentially true in some parts of the world that have say things like  geothermal energy)

 

No, no, no

 

UK people, like millions all over the world, are making their own electricity, putting it in to their cars and feeding their houses.  Why do you think, despite the rapidly rising UK population due to immigration, that the electricity per consumption, as measure by the UK electrical suppliers, grid etc, is going down and down, year on year  ?

 

It because the UK home owner and businesses are generating probably several Terra Watts of electrical power to add to the 90 TW or so the UK passes in to home, some homes are substantially export to the grid.  During the day I use solar to power the electrical devices throughout the home.  Depending how much I have in reserve I will use that through the evening At night I set the house to use the super cheap night time electricity, currently 8.5 per kWh for me.  In the morning, batteries charged up with the cheap nighttime time electricity, charge the EV up if needed also.

 

Currently spending less than a pound a day, not including the standing charge.  Now Octopus have teamed up with TESLA powerwall installing that maybe a way to go though I do like the portable solar generators 1, 2 kWh but would like to source a 3, 4 or 5 kW portable battery to add to the collection.  Their price, like solar panels, just keep falling and falling.    200W portable solar panel £86 delivered from Amazon, pay for itself in a year I reckon.  1.5 kWh battery Amazon was doing for £299 delivered. pay for itself within 3 years I reckon.    Plus it has power backup so one does not do a Manchester Airport total power loss for several hours. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 13:52 by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

PS @Winston_Woof  great thinking, Haves might not travel much by car and not much where they can not get back home to charge cheaply.

 

The unwashed masses are all over the place, here there and everywhere driving their own cars and paying their way as they go. 

So really the cheap bangers or just keeper Petrol / Diesel option is the way for these vagabonds. 

 

@lol-lol  Consumption down, more skint housholds about, energy debt, the £400 hand out went to everyone and many on Pay as you go meters never got vouchers. 

 

As people pay daily standing charges so the energy companies keep up the profits there are those getting very very cheap electricity and even paid sometimes to use it to charge vehicles, do the washing, cooking, heat the swimming pool etc.

Edited Wednesday at 13:58 by Ootohere

[lol-lol]

27 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

PS @Winston_Woof  great thinking, Haves might not travel much by car and not much where they can not get back home to charge cheaply.

 

The unwashed masses are all over the place, here there and everywhere driving their own cars and paying their way as they go. 

So really the cheap bangers or just keeper Petrol / Diesel option is the way for these vagabonds. 

 

@lol-lol  Consumption down, more skint households about, energy debt, the £400 hand out went to everyone and many on Pay as you go meters never got vouchers. 

 

As people pay daily standing charges so the energy companies keep up the profits there are those getting very very cheap electricity and even paid sometimes to use it to charge vehicles, do the washing, cooking, heat the swimming pool etc.

 

Fuel poverty is something we should not be seeing in the 21st Century.  

 

I have seen Youtubes of people living in high rise flats hanging out solar panels on their balcony rails and generating solar energy, costs can be quite tiny and charity organisation should be giving out as part of their support I reckon.

 

The tools to cut cost and even live off grid are here and getting cheaper and cheaper.  UK governments and Energy companies should be worried that there are less and less needed be involved in many of people's day to day needs. 

 

[Stonekeeper]

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Is there some reason there that the precious metals imported to the UK is not shown? The UK mining for them is not that big an industry is it?   Is it because it does pass through the UK or is traded without ever actually leaving security facilities while in Transit?      I would have thought gas would be a big export for the UK, even just from how much goes to Ireland.    The UK,s exported defence / weapons must just be below the top ten, then lots will be technology and services.   Or used in other figures / groups of exports.  

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

All part of the UK,s banking for dictators or anything robbed from countries around the world and the hub for global money lending.

As safe as houses in the UK.

You can buy them for many millions, leave them in ruins and do no care and maintenance and the UK Government or any other Governments can not get them.  Cheaper than paying for storage and security of millions of gold.

They can be in anyones name just like much of anything in the UK and the Government just turns a blind eye to where the money came from.

Edited Wednesday at 17:05 by Ootohere

[lol-lol]

10 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

This was the Sky video that went through the export data.....

There other things other than metal that are excluded from some export stats.  When we do customs entries for aircraft they are also not included.  Very high value but flit around the world.  Some of the customs warehouse I have looked at like Bristol Car customs WH compound tens of thousands, technical not imported yet as in "bond", like the LME metal.  If the Uk also adds the countervailing duty on cars etc I would expect thousands of cars to be put in to Uk Free Circulation the day before just to avoid the countervailing duty.  Did similar for a Korean car company some years ago.  Lies, damn lies and statistics.  Do we feel like a highly successful exporting economy ? Werll there are some bright spots but the B event is still not helping at all.  

 

 

 

 

[Winston_Woof]

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Fuel poverty is something we should not be seeing in the 21st Century.  

 

 

 

There are people out there struggling  in many areas.........................

[apd007]

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

No, no, no

 

UK people, like millions all over the world, are making their own electricity, putting it in to their cars and feeding their houses.  Why do you think, despite the rapidly rising UK population due to immigration, that the electricity per consumption, as measure by the UK electrical suppliers, grid etc, is going down and down, year on year  ?

 

It because the UK home owner and businesses are generating probably several Terra Watts of electrical power to add to the 90 TW or so the UK passes in to home, some homes are substantially export to the grid.  During the day I use solar to power the electrical devices throughout the home.  Depending how much I have in reserve I will use that through the evening At night I set the house to use the super cheap night time electricity, currently 8.5 per kWh for me.  In the morning, batteries charged up with the cheap nighttime time electricity, charge the EV up if needed also.

 

Currently spending less than a pound a day, not including the standing charge.  Now Octopus have teamed up with TESLA powerwall installing that maybe a way to go though I do like the portable solar generators 1, 2 kWh but would like to source a 3, 4 or 5 kW portable battery to add to the collection.  Their price, like solar panels, just keep falling and falling.    200W portable solar panel £86 delivered from Amazon, pay for itself in a year I reckon.  1.5 kWh battery Amazon was doing for £299 delivered. pay for itself within 3 years I reckon.    Plus it has power backup so one does not do a Manchester Airport total power loss for several hours. 

 

I'm running a solar set up with a Givenergy All-in-one which is basically a 13.5kwh battery wall. The weather we've had the last few days has meant I've spent pennies on the grid electric and sold electric back to grid for pounds. So far this year I'm nearly £700 up on electric costs. The down side is I'm still about £15.5k in the red on the installation costs. 🫤

[wyx087]

That's cost of a new high end kitchen. I personally think solar + battery system is more value adding to a house than new kitchen........ wife disagrees. 😑

[Ootohere]

 

 

[Stonekeeper]

Interesting

 

[Ootohere]

^^^ So 'Simply clever'. 

 

Others can see the possible issue. 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Ootohere