Climatronic - feature or fault?

[peterperfect]

I wish I could join in this seemingly neverending debate but my Octy II is in for the third investigative visit to see why it isn't working! If only I had the problem of choosing between AUTO and ECON and any temperature below the ambient - at the moment ROASTING!!!!!

Mike:confused:

[ednmra]

I've noticed that if you put it on auto with a very low temp setting, and so get a very fast fan [making a lot of noise'], if you turn the fan down manually the auto light goes off. So you are getting a sort of ordinary air con at that point, if what you set on the kn ob is below outside air temperature.

I don't think turning the fan down stops the a/c aspect. I think it just wants the high fan to get the temp down quickly. If you turn the fan down to reduce noise, it still gets cooler and cooler in the car but takes a little longer.

With our recent "Florida like" conditions, I recall being told [Over There] always put the windows down to start with, running the a/c on highest fan, then when the "stored" hot air got mostly blown out of the car you put the windows right up and the fan speed to wherever you wanted it.

If you don't like messing with "Climatic", put the temp control on "lo" and then it is working more or less like good old-fashioned a/c. When the car is cool, set your preferred temperature and the system will hold it there, rather than turn the car into a fridge.

Finally Econ is just a petrol saver if the temp you like inside the car is higher than the outside ambient temperature.

[timjfw]

I was going to ring the dealer about econ and auto being on at the same time - glad I read this first!

[fredw]

It looks like it is yet another "clever" system that is out of our control, isn't it?

I fully agree.

The climatronic on my MK1 Ocky worked with minimum fuss, just set the temperature and go. Occasionally needed to force demist in very wet conditions and also change the temperature setting very occasionally.

The MkII climatronic needs far more intervention in order to keep the car comfortable. The beasite went back to Milton Keynes for a full check on the system and I am assured that it is working correctly.

[DaveI]

The MkII climatronic needs far more intervention in order to keep the car comfortable. The beasite went back to Milton Keynes for a full check on the system and I am assured that it is working correctly.

Press AUTO, set the right hand control to your required temp, how is that complicated? I never need to touch the middle blower control or any of the face / feet etc buttons. I set the temp and let the car sort it out.

[freemansteve]

Perhaps is too late to come back to this discussion, but I believe I know how Climatronics works.

I did perform many experiments in different weather conditions and this is what came out of it.

"Auto" is controlling the fun speed only.

This means that when it is on - the fun sets automatically to get the ultimate temeperature under the comfortable conditions (neither too small, nor to high air blow).

Another words, "AUTO" has nothing (in my opninion) to do with cooler!

Whenever the "ECON" is not on - the cooler starts working.

In the intermediate temperature differences (between the set and ambient temperatures), the air is cooled and sometimes some warm air is added not to get too low temperatures inside. This results in drying the incoming air, without really coolling the temperature inside the vehicle.

When the "ECON" is on, coolling is blocked, and as mentioned above - the temperature inside cannot reach anything below the ambient one.

This is still not quite right; but one digression -

The first problem is that as with ALL manuals, 99% of the information in it is for simpletons who've never been in a car, or is simply there to minimize possible litigation.

This means anything subtle or complex that you want explaining will always remain a mystery if you rely on the manual.

It is like this because technical writers, on the whole, know almost nothing useful or smart about the products they write about. The engineers who develop the systems do know how they work, but find it hard or too dull to expend effort on explaining stuff to anyone else. I speak as someone who runs an engineering group and technical writers, and there's a limit to how much information is worth squeezing out of the guys to put into manuals, even though I lean to the more comprehensive and comprehensible approach. It's down to money in the end.

As for the Climatronic, it seems to me, by looking at the rubbish manual and then conducting some empirical experiments, the following seems likely:

1) "Auto" controls temperature, fan speed, humidity* and air distribution around the vehicle, making a best guess at what to do for an all-round optimization. Ultimately the the decisions it takes (pre-programmed by the engineers, and probably infinitely mess-able with if you have a VAGCOM). (*humidity can only be controlled when 'ECON' is off - see below).

2) The additional outlet buttons bias the Auto settings to provide extra air through different paths.

3) If AUTO is not selected, you still retain your desired temp setting, but air distribution and fan speed stops being controlled automatically.

4) If ECON is selected, it prevents the the compressor for the air-con unit from starting, to save fuel (up to 10% compared with when the aircon is running). The compressor is engine driven and uses energy to provide cooling. What this means is that whether you have AUTO on or not, with ECON set, you will either take much longer to cool the car (using external air) or indeed if it's warm outside, never get to your desired internal temp.

5) If ECON is on, you also have zero control over the humidity levels in the car, since a "chiller" condenses out humidity. This means that you can have AUTO on at sensible temperature and still start to fog up if it's damp outside (or if you are doing a lot of heavy breathing in the car).

6) The front screen demeister button appears to provide an automated mechanism to optimise the system to demist the windscreen, by biasing air onto the screen and controlling fan speed, temp and humidity level.

7) The thing I don't know, because I haven't messed with it yet, is whether the centre button (which in Golfs has an "OFF" fucntion) actually does stop all airflow in the car - like a proper "off" used to on the old manual systems - no recirculation or air flowing from out to in, or air moving at all through any vent (&no fan of course). Or, maybe it just kills the fan quickly without requiring you to twist the fan kn0b. Anyone know for sure, by experiment rather than guessing?

Steve

[ednmra]

Also, can anyone tell me what settings on a Climatronic system gives you a generally warm car [feet etc] but cool air to the face? Mine seems to put warm air out through all the face level vents unless the whole car is being run cool.

[vimto2000]

I didn't think it was possible to be that specific on Climatronic.

[fredw]

Press AUTO, set the right hand control to your required temp, how is that complicated? I never need to touch the middle blower control or any of the face / feet etc buttons. I set the temp and let the car sort it out.

I could do that on the Mk1 on my Mk2 I need to regularly adjust the temperature to a fairly high value in order to get the car warm initially and then turn it down to maintain comfort.

[skyraider]

Hi All,

I'm having some problem with the air-conditioning as well.

Living in Asia (hot weather), my windscreen fogs up everytime i drive.

Seems that the air-vent from the dashboard cools up the windscreen causing the fog (difference of air temperate in/out). I tried the fan controls, thinking that i can "defog"... hmmm worst

Any one can comment ?

cheers

[ednmra]

Hi All,

I'm having some problem with the air-conditioning as well.

Living in Asia (hot weather), my windscreen fogs up everytime i drive.

Seems that the air-vent from the dashboard cools up the windscreen causing the fog (difference of air temperate in/out). I tried the fan controls, thinking that i can "defog"... hmmm worst

Any one can comment ?

cheers

The only thing I've found to help that is the button marked with the front screen demist, which is the top half of the control for the rear screen demist. That clears the screen almost instantly but doesn't seem to affect the general settings even though the auto light goes off. After a couple of minutes I go back to auto and it seems to stay okay. Auto [i.e with the a/c compressor running] should always helps demist because it is drying the air as well as cooling it.

I must say I preferred regular simple a/c to climate control.

[tomo2001]

ednmra :: "I must say I preferred regular simple a/c to climate control".

Having had more loan cars than hot dinners this year (see thread on what 'dieseling' means) I can state the opposite.

My car has Climatronic but the others I have been using have standard air con. One thing I have noticed with the loan cars, Fabias & Octys, is that when you first get in the car and start the engine (in the cooler weather we have had), the windscreen seems to mist up very quickly and take a while to clear. This meant that you can't just jump in and drive straight off. I never have this with the Climatronic.

[ednmra]

ednmra :: "I must say I preferred regular simple a/c to climate control".

Having had more loan cars than hot dinners this year (see thread on what 'dieseling' means) I can state the opposite.

My car has Climatronic but the others I have been using have standard air con. One thing I have noticed with the loan cars, Fabias & Octys, is that when you first get in the car and start the engine (in the cooler weather we have had), the windscreen seems to mist up very quickly and take a while to clear. This meant that you can't just jump in and drive straight off. I never have this with the Climatronic.

My main experience with older type air con is US hire cars in the very hot southeast. They reckon that those systems are much more effective than typical UK ones possibly because of more extreme hot climate there. My preference stems from the ability to vary the temperature in different parts of the car more easily. Also I found that pure air con directed at the windshield gave almost instant demist. It seemed just as easy to get the desired interior temperature with a good air con system, using its controls and fan speed.

[skyraider]

The only thing I've found to help that is the button marked with the front screen demist, which is the top half of the control for the rear screen demist. That clears the screen almost instantly but doesn't seem to affect the general settings even though the auto light goes off. After a couple of minutes I go back to auto and it seems to stay okay. Auto [i.e with the a/c compressor running] should always helps demist because it is drying the air as well as cooling it.

I must say I preferred regular simple a/c to climate control.

Hi,

The demist control button you mentioned, i've actually tried it.

Instead of clearing the the problem, instead condenses the screen more.. End results, i get a bigger patch of condensation on my windscreen..

Now i've got to activate windscreen wiper to clear it off :(

[ednmra]

Hi,

The demist control button you mentioned, i've actually tried it.

Instead of clearing the the problem, instead condenses the screen more.. End results, i get a bigger patch of condensation on my windscreen..

Now i've got to activate windscreen wiper to clear it off :(

That's odd. The "fog" should be on the inside of the screen - the wipers wouldn't touch it. Sounds like something is wrong with the system. The a/c sometimes

causes 2 very small foggy patches right at the bottom of the screen but that isn't a visibility problem. Yours sounds like something different.

[dstev2000]

Warm, humid air on the outside + cold air on the inside will cause condensation on the outside of the screen, as the dew point of the outside air is high it will condense where the cold air hits the screen from the demist outlet, trimming the air temp up a little will keep the windscreen glass above dew point. It will do it in the UK on very humid days. Keep the aircon runnig but set the temp higher.

[skyraider]

Warm, humid air on the outside + cold air on the inside will cause condensation on the outside of the screen, as the dew point of the outside air is high it will condense where the cold air hits the screen from the demist outlet, trimming the air temp up a little will keep the windscreen glass above dew point. It will do it in the UK on very humid days. Keep the aircon runnig but set the temp higher.

Hi,

That might be it, by turning up the temperature of aircon.

But is there any way to stop airflow from the demister vent. Isn't it only to be "open" when we want to demist by activatating on the control.

It seems that this moment, my demister vent is perpertually open (and i can't close it)

Can i confirm for the octavia VRS owners, if your air vent (just right at the dashboard, under windscreen) is always blowing out air ? (regardless if demister is on/off)

cheers and many thanks

[dstev2000]

My windscreen demister is always blowing out a tiny amount of air even if it's not set to do so.

The 2 vents nearest to the front driver and passenger windows allow air to flow if the climatronic is set to demist the windscreen or set to supply air via all 4 dash mounted vents, the side vents are classed as demisters as they are close to the windows.

There is a diagram in the manual that shows what vents and outlets are activated in different modes.

[skyraider]

My windscreen demister is always blowing out a tiny amount of air even if it's not set to do so.

The 2 vents nearest to the front driver and passenger windows allow air to flow if the climatronic is set to demist the windscreen or set to supply air via all 4 dash mounted vents, the side vents are classed as demisters as they are close to the windows.

There is a diagram in the manual that shows what vents and outlets are activated in different modes.

Hi ..

Thanks mate !!

this least confirmed that my vrs is not broken :P

cheers