Real world recharge rates - what is people's experience?

[apd007]

I'm still new to the world of EV ownership so I'm interested in people's experience of real world recharging. I ordered my car based on the ability of the vehicle being able to do about half its theoretical range, which I now know was pessimistic, as the car can comfortably do 200 miles. I also wasn't too concerned that its maximum recharge rate is only 90kwh as most EV complaints seemed to be recharged rates were lower than they'd expected (multiple different manufacturers) with the most common complaint being "The book says I can charge my "insert name of car" at xxxkwh but I only got yykwh" so again I based my decision on getting 50kwh real world.

 

I'm aware of the 20 - 80 sweet spot and how battery condition effects recharge, but how does that fit in to real world? If I've just spent 30 minutes in a slow crawl at 15 mph will the battery be better/worse for recharge than if I'd just cruised up at 70mph and stopped off for a break and coffee, for example? What are people's experiences in the UK, and does it vary by region/charge company? 

[Ootohere]

Those with an EV like you have are best placed to comment,

 

Best say what size of Battery / Car you are talking about.   Is it an Enyaq 80? 

Max charge rate and which vehicle or chargers are relevant. 

There are vehicles that can max charge only at 50, 100, 125, or greater kW, then 200-350 kW chargers for cars that can take that or it is about amps

 

The 20-80 sweet spot  is a nonsense. 

If you have big battery then getting down to 10% left and the battery pre-conditioned or not has the charger ramping up faster, then the charge might still be fast enough up to 90%.

But 10%-70% might be quicker than 20%-80%.   You getting the same amount of electricity.

So if you want range, 5%-75%, or to 8%, or more.  If the charger is only putting out 48kW then maybe best take enough tio get to an Ultra Fast charger.

 

As to power use, you might just be in stop / start traffic for miles and never getting above 10 mph or even 15 mph and using almost none of the charge in the battery.

Then the difference of going 65 mph compared to 70 mph, or 75 mph can be surprising.  For poorer efficiency.

But then it is vehicle dependent, and if there are uphills there are down hills and regening, coasting and going quicker and regening can be good on the range.

 

EDIT / PS

Sorry, i see that you say your EV has a max 90 kW charge rate. 

?

What car is it?

Comparing charge rates, or average charge rates of a Tesla & a Tesla on a Tesla Supercharger as in the roadtrip thread is not much help for many other cars / batteries or Chargers of 100 & 100 plus kW. 

 

I am away to charge to 98% with a small battery and at 37 pence a kWh because the next charge will be 79 pence a kWh and i will just charge at that cost enough to get me on a Tesla Supercharger non Tesla and paying around 50 pence a kWh.

Next charger might be 63 pence a kWh.

If i can use less use of expensive charging for me that makes sense.  It still is costing more than running a diesel. 

This is me with a Max 50 kW charging rate and some are good until pretty full at a high charge rate and can be on 50 kW chargers, 

and some 50,s or 100, 100 plus are not great even from a low battery state and might not ramp up much above 30 kW,s.    PPS. Pithed off as DC CCS charger and the only one out of service and had to use the 11 kW AC.  Not in a hurry luckily.     Horrible horrible weather with high winds and rain so can expect maybe 35 miles for each 10 kWh.   That is ok when 37 pence a kWh but not 79 pence. 

 

 

Edited 4 June by Ootohere

[Luckypants]

As Ootohere states, to get a meaningful reply you should really tell us what your car will be. However, I'll relate my experiences with a VW ID.4 (closely related to Enyaq).

I have had mainly very fast DC charges where conditions allow, up to 160kW and often over 100kW. It helps to understand what it takes to get a fast charging session and make sure you get as many of those factors lined up.

 

1. Charger capable of your max charge rate or more - I think you know this but some folks still pull up to 50kW chargers and expect 100kW because their car can do it!
2. Arrive with low State of Charge - The lower the better from a charging perspective. No need to worry about going below 20% SoC if you are going to immediately charge so go as low as you dare without running out. All my best charge sessions have been from below 10% SoC.
3. Arrive with a warm battery - The chemical reaction in a battery to store electrons happens faster at higher temperatures. Unless your car has battery pre-conditioning (pre-heat) there is little you can do about this. Warm days definitely help but a long motorway cruise hardly affects the battery temp. You will get better speeds after a drive on a cold day than if you charged very first thing but the improvement is not great. On a long trip, you may find the second and subsequent rapid charges are faster due to the heating effect of rapid charging on the battery.
4. Only charge enough for what you need - rapid charging slows as the battery fills up and on SOME cars it can tail off dramatically. Get to know where the 'drop off point' is for your car, over which it's hardly worth hanging on to the charger. For my car its about 87%. If speed of charging is the aim, move on when charging tails off and drive to your next charger.
5. Some chargers share power - Related to point 1. Some chargers allow two cars to plug in simultaneously but their maximum power output is shared. Thus a 150kW charger might only give 75kW max to each car plugged in. Avoid these if you want max speed.

 

No doubt others will refine / add to these points but I hope it gives an idea.

Edited 4 June by Luckypants

[Luckypants]

Oh and for reference, My peak charge speed ever was 164kW on a Tesla V3 charger in France. That soon dropped as the battery got hot (32C outside temp) and gave an average charge speed over the session of 95kW delivering 52kWh to the car. My best average was at the Tesla charger at Folkstone Eurotunnel of 110kw delivering 48kWh to the car (peak power was 145-ish but maintained it longer). I consistently get close to 50kW from 50kW chargers and 75kW from 75kW chargers if below 60% SoC.

I don't rapid charge a lot compared to some, so I do think about it in order to optimise things.

Edited 4 June by Luckypants

[wyx087]

11 hours ago, apd007 said:

I'm aware of the 20 - 80 sweet spot and how battery condition effects recharge, but how does that fit in to real world? If I've just spent 30 minutes in a slow crawl at 15 mph will the battery be better/worse for recharge than if I'd just cruised up at 70mph and stopped off for a break and coffee, for example? What are people's experiences in the UK, and does it vary by region/charge company? 

In the ideal world, you'd navigate somewhere and the car builds in ideal charging stops, typically arriving at 10-15%.

 

In the real world, I navigate to destination and the car builds in ideal charging stops. But less than half way to the first charging stop, people in the car wants a rest stop so I select next supercharger and stop there.

 

 

With a Tesla vehicle and Tesla's supercharger network, I personally try to stay within their charging network for fastest, easiest and cheapest charging experience. It's as simple as park up, plug in and walk away. I don't feel the need to seek out alternatives with current state of network and pricing.

 

Everything Lucky lists are true for achieving fastest travel time, but end of the day occupants of the car dictates what happens on the day. Just plug in whenever parked for rest stop and you'd be golden.

 

Similarly, I also don't public charge much. 93% of my charging is via AC and most are at home 7.5p/kWh. I try to leave home with as much as possible and arrive home with as little as possible. Trusting the car's built-in arrival estimate, which has never failed me.

[apd007]

Thanks for the replies so far, I think a little context might help.

 

The car is a 2024 Jaguar I-Pace. Next month I'm planning on taking it down to around Southampton/Portsmouth area to meet up with friends at an Airbnb. I know the car will make the trip down in one go easily, the complication is I'll probably be driving everyone the following day to Goodwood FoS so I'll need to be up to around 80% charge depending on how far away we are so I can get there and back and make a charging point for the drive home.

 

My concern is I get down that way expecting to be able to recharge up in about 45 minutes at a rapid charger only to find it takes 2 hours to get to 50%. In a petrol car I know irrespective of the fuel pump, weather or someone else refuelling next to me I can fill the tank from empty and pay in about 10 minutes, but with an electric car these variables seem to matter so I'm wondering what people's real world experience is like outside the hyperbole of YouTube and internet rants.

[Luckypants]

The answer to your dillema about needing 80% minimum would be to book an Airbnb with a charger and charge your car overnight. 100% in the morning. Destination charging like this makes trips away a doddle.

 

PS I guessed the right car.

[Ootohere]

@apd007   is it a 90 kWh battery ? (84.7 usable).     It has 100 kW max charging speed.      ? What size of charger do you think you would be to take 2 hours to get to 50% ?      Your are just putting in under 45kWh for half the battery.     On a 50 kW charger that might be 70 minutes.        For a 100kW charger JLR says charge up to 80% in just under 40 minutes.    The  WLTP range of 285 miles might be pushing it but surely a full battery must give at least  3 x 80 in summer weather so 240 miles. 

Edited 4 June by Ootohere

[wyx087]

If you are worried about slow rapid charging speed, find a fast rapid charger (100kW or more) and charge the night upon arriving. Battery would be at better temperature compared to in the morning.

 

Does Jag brochure talk about battery preconditioning? I'd thought all cars have it these days. If your car does have this feature, you can charge at any time. Just turn it on when you are making your way there.

 

Key is finding fast public rapid chargers that matches your car's charging speed.

 

 

 

@Luckypants Out of interest, what version is your VW software and vehicle model year? I'm looking at 77 kWh ID 3 for my parents as VW talks about enabling V2H for these vehicles with v3.5. Does ALL vehicle get latest software regardless of model year?

[Ootohere]

Not 'much cheapness'  but i have found these handy and with EV,s with 100 kW max charging i got the 75 kW for quite well into the battery charging. 

Edited 5 June by Ootohere

[Luckypants]

@wyx087 I messaged you so as not to derail.

[Ootohere]

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Completely different to the iPace, but I see 200kW+ regularly on the right chargers (15-20 minute charge window).

 

I would say unless the chargers are playing up int in the range of 120 (140 most of the time) to 240kW (220 most of the time).

 

I deliberately chose a vehicle with an 800v battery though, as I have different priorities.