Is this signalling the end of high performance cars

[Graham Butcher]

With all new cars sold in the EU and UK after July 7th this year having to be fitted with a mandatory speed limiter to keep vehicles within the speed limits for the type of road they are on, what is the point of having big powerful ICE vehicles any more?  UK to mandate speed limiters in new cars from July 2024 | Regit

 

These devices will controlled by GPS and also by reading speed signs, but they can also be temporarily overridden off and automatically reset when starting the engine again.

 

I can predict many problems with these devices, such the GPS being given the wrong speed limit on some roads, or a speed limit sign being blocked by a large vehicle etc so the camera is unable to adjust the speed, thus meaning you could be driving above the limit or limited to a lower speed because the device is sure of where you are and have a risk of being rear ended by others who will automatically speed up.

 

I can see insurance companies refusing to honour any claims if they discover that the accident was caused by the driver overriding it.

[Winston_Woof]

why single out  big powerful ICE vehicles, this is all new vehicles.


Ah lots of other Nanny features being mandated as well.

In addition to speed limiters, the new EU regulations include other safety features like autonomous emergency braking, black box technology, emergency stop signals, driver fatigue detection, lane keep assist, built-in breathalysers, and reversing sensors or cameras

DOn't get me wrong I like a good gadget as much as the next man but it becomes a Nanny system when it's mandated by law IMHO

[Graham Butcher]

3 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

why single out  big powerful ICE vehicles, this is all new vehicles.


Ah lots of other Nanny features being mandated as well.

In addition to speed limiters, the new EU regulations include other safety features like autonomous emergency braking, black box technology, emergency stop signals, driver fatigue detection, lane keep assist, built-in breathalysers, and reversing sensors or cameras

DOn't get me wrong I like a good gadget as much as the next man but it becomes a Nanny system when it's mandated by law IMHO

ICE was me, thinking about the amounts of pollution that generate when compared with a 2 litre max sized engine. Just taking those big engines out of the equation would make a huge reduction in the pollution levels. Truth is, however, that these limiters will be fitted to electric vehicles, so maybe, just maybe, we might see a big shift away from the blistering acceleration these cars can do for more sensible HP motor and thus way better ranges as a result? 

 

As to the other items you mention, most newer cars have some of these already built in.

[Winston_Woof]

32 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

 

 

As to the other items you mention, most newer cars have some of these already built in.

I was just quoting th elinked article but yes most of these are fitted to most cars already so it makes it a pointless bit of legislation (unless its to make sure enough money is spent to justify next years budget)

[Danoid]

Eugh EU strikes again only few days after Alfa Romeo as well

[Gammyleg]

1 minute ago, Danoid said:

Eugh EU strikes again

I though Dave & Nige had freed us from the EU or did I get that wrong?

[crankcase]

Don't confuse " speed limiter that automatically adjusts your speed" with what this new legislation imposes, which is "mandatory speed limiter warning that goes boing flash annoyingly but doesn't adjust your speed automatically".

 

Yet. 

 

I think that's right.

 

 

 

[Graham Butcher]

11 minutes ago, crankcase said:

Don't confuse " speed limiter that automatically adjusts your speed" with what this new legislation imposes, which is "mandatory speed limiter warning that goes boing flash annoyingly but doesn't adjust your speed automatically".

 

Yet. 

 

I think that's right.

 

 

 

I hope your right, because it could serious problems if it does start to adjust your speed. They can't even get sat navs to provide 100% correct information even now.

[Winston_Woof]

I think what this legislation does is effectively autoset the speed limiter (as fitted to many vehicles already) to the speed limit for the road you're on and will prevent you exceeding the speed limit  unless (as you can with any optional speed limiter) push through it

So as you say its not auto adjusting the speed but rather the speed limit setting

[crankcase]

You know, I'm not sure it even does that. I think it just moans if you exceed the limit. Be interesting to see anyway, especially as I'm in the market for something new.

 

I saw someone complaining about the Peugeot implementation today - boings and flashes giant red things at you for fifteen seconds if you go 1mph over. That would drive me crackers.

 

In any event, given it's going to be pulling data from the speed you see on the dash, rather than your true speed, whatever it does will be happening under the actual limit.

 

In my Superb, 31 on the dash is a gps 30, up to 70 on the dash is a gps 66. When the adaptive cruise adjusts for an upcoming speed limit change, it sets the car to match what the dash says, so I'm constantly nudging it up a bit to get nearer reality.

 

It can optionally boing and flash if you do go 1mph or more over; turned that off on day one and it's stayed off.

 

I suspect this new system is just the same but harder to turn off, and of course turns on again every drive anyway.

[Crucian]

Next step is data sent to authorities, insurance companies and newly set up automatic fine systems etc etc etc

 

Long gone are the modified Cosworth days

 

Always drive within the law and responsibly as I do 

Edited 4 June by Crucian

[Graham Butcher]

@crankcase, that is how I think it will work for now, but I can foresee the time when it will set the max speed for you. Yes, my Superb speedo reads exactly as yours and I find it very irritating that the cruise control will only allow me to adjust its setting in 5mph steps, so I find myself trying to push the car a little extra on the throttle and then engage the cruise control. My TomTom satnav does all the bonging for me if I exceed the speed limit by 2-3mph.

[Graham Butcher]

6 minutes ago, Crucian said:

Next step is data sent to authorities, insurance companies and newly set up automatic fine systems etc etc etc

 

Long gone are the modified Cosworth days

 

Always drive within the law and responsibly as I do 

That is exactly how I strive to drive and always have done for the last 57 years, can't be doing too badly at it as I have never collected a fine or points on my licence and for something around 40 years, I would have lost my job if I collected enough points, so I've always employed whatever gadgets I could get to help out as I was having to drive all other the UK and so was often in strange places and speed cameras etc have nasty habits of hiding from view until It's too late. 

[crankcase]

28 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@crankcase,  I find it very irritating that the cruise control will only allow me to adjust its setting in 5mph steps, 

I'm guessing yours is different to mine, but just in case... Knock the lever up, it increases in fives. Pull it towards you, increases in ones.

 

Mine does anyway 

[Graham Butcher]

8 minutes ago, crankcase said:

I'm guessing yours is different to mine, but just in case... Knock the lever up, it increases in fives. Pull it towards you, increases in ones.

 

Mine does anyway 

Oh, I'll have to try that out, thanks.

[Winston_Woof]

46 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@crankcase, that is how I think it will work for now, but I can foresee the time when it will set the max speed for you. Yes, my Superb speedo reads exactly as yours and I find it very irritating that the cruise control will only allow me to adjust its setting in 5mph steps, so I find myself trying to push the car a little extra on the throttle and then engage the cruise control. My TomTom satnav does all the bonging for me if I exceed the speed limit by 2-3mph.

so take it past where you want to be and then press the B button and bring it back down 1mph/kph at a time ;o)

That said I find with the Adaptiveness of it 5mph increments are just fine

[leolito]

On 04/06/2024 at 20:34, Graham Butcher said:

but I can foresee the time when it will set the max speed for you.

In a nutshell, yes, (unfortunately) this is where we are heading. Same as we 'downsized' engines and other means of transport (think Concorde), same as we lost services without paying lesser fees - think what it was air travel, for one, or the "self-paying cash registers" at supermarkets, same as now you get 80g of a product for the same price before you were getting 100g, and so on.

The question is not inevitability, but the timeline and how these things come to fruition. They say if you throw a frog in boiling water you will scald it and will run away, but warm slowly the same water and it will get used to it until ... I do not know, but it has been going on since years so I guess we are all "getting used to it".

And no, I do not think this marks the end of hi-performance vehicles, these will continue to be proposed and sold, but the combination of even more restrictive conditions will be the mechanism: speed limits and speed cameras, increased fines, tracking and reporting of driving conditions, and so on. All in the name of safety, to which I hold up a BS sign.

 

[leolito]

On 04/06/2024 at 18:09, Gammyleg said:

I though Dave & Nige had freed us from the EU or did I get that wrong?

(Disclaimer: no intention to throw this into politics, which I think are a no-no in this forum, so take this lightly and laugh it over*)

 

Oh no "mate", that is not how it works! You DID get it wrong! 😄

 

Once you bought a ticket into this sinking ship (or derailing train, which you prefer), there is no "getting out easily".

Yeah sure, you guys got yourselves "free" from the ballroom, where we all "continentals" keep dancing and singing while the orchestra plays (like in the Titanic), so actually you are now "free" to roam the outer realms of the sinking ship, but .... but ... out there the icy waters and the sharks (yeah, even at these latitudes) wait happily your demise 😬

Would continue this allegory, but I think this sufficient 😟

 

"You can check out anytime you like

But you can never leave"

 

* there is nothing to laugh about, but this is all we got left with ... 🙄

[Penpusher]

My present car (2016 model) has to be manually changed to kph when I leave the UK.  Unless the new cars with speed limiters automatically change, will I be able to leave it showing mph when I leave the UK?  If so, could I then drive at 50mph in a town where the limit is 50 kph?  Of course, I would not want to do that, but could I in theory?  I imagine it's unlikely as anyone living in a kph country could change to mph. 

[travs]

On 04/06/2024 at 17:43, crankcase said:

You know, I'm not sure it even does that. I think it just moans if you exceed the limit. Be interesting to see anyway, especially as I'm in the market for something new.

 

I saw someone complaining about the Peugeot implementation today - boings and flashes giant red things at you for fifteen seconds if you go 1mph over. That would drive me crackers.

 

In any event, given it's going to be pulling data from the speed you see on the dash, rather than your true speed, whatever it does will be happening under the actual limit.

 

In my Superb, 31 on the dash is a gps 30, up to 70 on the dash is a gps 66. When the adaptive cruise adjusts for an upcoming speed limit change, it sets the car to match what the dash says, so I'm constantly nudging it up a bit to get nearer reality.

 

It can optionally boing and flash if you do go 1mph or more over; turned that off on day one and it's stayed off.

 

I suspect this new system is just the same but harder to turn off, and of course turns on again every drive anyway.

Not going on the article given it refers to introduction of a Speed Limiter and then: 

 

"What is a speed limiter?

It's a safety feature you can install in your car to prevent it from exceeding a set speed. Unlike cruise control, which maintains a constant speed, a speed limiter lets you accelerate and decelerate as usual, as long as you stay within the speed limit you've set.

Speed limiters, often referred to as Intelligent Speed Assistant (ISA), use GPS or traffic-sign-recognition cameras to determine the maximum speed allowed in an area and restrict the engine's power accordingly."

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, travs said:

Not going on the article given it refers to introduction of a Speed Limiter and then: 

 

"What is a speed limiter?

It's a safety feature you can install in your car to prevent it from exceeding a set speed. Unlike cruise control, which maintains a constant speed, a speed limiter lets you accelerate and decelerate as usual, as long as you stay within the speed limit you've set.

Speed limiters, often referred to as Intelligent Speed Assistant (ISA), use GPS or traffic-sign-recognition cameras to determine the maximum speed allowed in an area and restrict the engine's power accordingly."

Correct, that is what a speed limiter does, but what if the one in your car does not get the correct signal or misses out on a speed limit road sign or miss reads a sign and your driving along at say 70mph and the speed limit changes to say 50mph which does on a motorway when road works are happening, but your system reacts as if it is a 30mph and you car suddenly responds and cuts power until you reach 30mph and then someone else, who got the right message of 50mph, ploughs into the back of you?

[Winston_Woof]

28 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Correct, that is what a speed limiter does, but what if the one in your car does not get the correct signal or misses out on a speed limit road sign or miss reads a sign and your driving along at say 70mph and the speed limit changes to say 50mph which does on a motorway when road works are happening, but your system reacts as if it is a 30mph and you car suddenly responds and cuts power until you reach 30mph and then someone else, who got the right message of 50mph, ploughs into the back of you?

not a problem as all cars will also be mandated with forward facing radar to automatically apply the brakes...................................

[travs]

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Correct, that is what a speed limiter does, but what if the one in your car does not get the correct signal or misses out on a speed limit road sign or miss reads a sign and your driving along at say 70mph and the speed limit changes to say 50mph which does on a motorway when road works are happening, but your system reacts as if it is a 30mph and you car suddenly responds and cuts power until you reach 30mph and then someone else, who got the right message of 50mph, ploughs into the back of you?

I get the difference, but that wasn't my point.

 

I wasn't just explaining what I think a speed limiter is. I've quoted the explanation directly from the article you linked to: it says that a speed limiter is going to be brought into use; whereas you and crankcase seem to speculate that it will probably be just a speed limit warning...

[Graham Butcher]

21 minutes ago, travs said:

I get the difference, but that wasn't my point.

 

I wasn't just explaining what I think a speed limiter is. I've quoted the explanation directly from the article you linked to: it says that a speed limiter is going to be brought into use; whereas you and crankcase seem to speculate that it will probably be just a speed limit warning...

Actually, the article seems to indicate that it would be just a warning. However, there is always the chance that it could at some point in time actually be used to set the maximum speed the car could go to and if that were to the case, it could potentially lead to some nasty accidents. 

Edited 11 June by Graham Butcher

[crankcase]

I had a little prod about in Google. It looks like different manufacturers can take different approaches. The first prominent hit was Ford, who clearly say their system does indeed regulate your speed automatically. 

 

So I looked for the EU legislation. An article here seems to say there is in fact a choice between  "just warn" and the "actively intervene" for the manufacturer.

 

So which Skoda have done we will know for sure when someone with a spanking new one posts in this thread I guess 

 

Article is:

https://etsc.eu/opinion-will-intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-live-up-to-its-promise/

Edited 12 June by crankcase