Help! Rough idling on newly bought Fabia

[JoeW]

Can anyone advise?

I picked up a two year old Skoda approved Fabia 1.4 Mpi with 16000 miles on Friday. The engine seems lumpy at idle - an intermittent vibration you can feel through the wheel. I noticed this on the test drive but was assured it was related to lack of use and would be sorted before I picked the car up.

The engine seems fine on the move (but then I have nothing to compare it with). I did try another older car on their forecourt and although its not exactly smooth at idle (its an old Estelle motor, isn't it) it didn't wobble on its engine mounts like mine is doing...

When I took delivery they said that it was something to do with the throttle and it had been fixed - but its still just the same. (it gets more noticeable when the engine is hot which is why I didn't notice it when I took delivery.)

More worryingly I took the oil cap off this morning to find a little white emulsion inside the cap. After running the engine this cleared (so I couldn't show it to the service manager). Normally I would take this to indicate coolant in the oil. Could this be normal? According to the service history the oil was changed approx 300 miles ago.

The coolant was also a good 2-3 cm above the max. mark in the header tank (despite a supposed 'levels' check being carried out).

I've now returned the car to the garage for them to sort out the problems. If they don't manage this I probably want to reject the car. Does anyone have experience of this?

I'd appreciate any advice on any of the technical issues above (am I making a fuss about nothing?) , but also how I should proceed with the dealer.

Apologies for the length of this post...

[DGW]

The following warranty applies a Skoda Approved used cars (copied direct from Skoda UK's website):

'Retailer Approved Used Vehicle Programme

To ensure that you receive the highest standards of quality and consistency, used vehicles available through this web-site are supplied with all the benefits of the

[JoeW]

Thanks - sound advice... Any ideas what could be causing the rough idling? i suppose my worry is that if it was a simple matter of changing plugs or something they'd have done it before delivery. I'm concerned that it might be a symptom of previous overheating given the track record of the 1.4 engine. I had a Metro once which lost coolant, overheated and was never quite the same again...

[JoeW]

Follow up - I happened to be near the original supplying dealer of my car and asked them about my car's history. Its never had any work done apart from routine servicing. The service manager reckons the 1.4 MPI is often lumpy at idle and sounds like its going to cut out but doesn't. Maybe this is normal? It still doesn't seem right to me though (or to anyone else who's had a listen). Are there any MPi drivers out there who can help?

[devonutopia]

Alex? - Didn't you have fun with your 1.4MPI Furby? What was that all about then?

[ncarring]

I have been told the 1.4 engine can be rough at idle - I complained about one I had as a courtesy car.

Other points:

Whatever the level of coolant there should be no interaction between it and the oil. Is there any sign of oil in the coolant? The levels should be checked with the car on a level surface and with a cold engine - was it hot when you checked the coolant level? It's unlikely on a 2 year old car that the cap has ever been off the expansion bottle. Modern sealed coolant systems are incredibly reliable and leak-free.

The emulsion is probably the result of condensation ingested via the crankcase ventilation system during the cold weather. It should dissipate with more miles and warmer weather. Some engines are very prone to this - I had a 1.1 Fiesta which had permanent emulsification problems, but no coolant leaks over a 2 year period.

You're within your rights to reject the car if you want to under the exchange - this might mean taking another car rather than a refund though (not sure)

[Alex]

Yep i did have the pleasure of owning a 1.4mpi and it did have a lumpy idle as you describe also beware of a tappety noise as this is IIRC a common fault on that engine i cant remember the cause of the fault but it was sorted on my car and made a world of difference with regard to NVH (and the repair is covered under warrenty)

Try PM'ing Big K he should be able to sort you out

(If you want to the noise of the engine redlined is simply fantastic and it keeps pulling well into the 5-6K rpm rev range )

[devonutopia]

and it only pulls well into the 5-6K rpm rev range )

Indeed, and I still have those visions in my rearview mirror of this hurtling Fabia.

[Alex]

Indeed, and I still have those visions in my rearview mirror of this hurtling Fabia.

It flew didnt it Jason but my (pseudo)navigator didnt seem to enjoy it much

[JoeW]

Maybe I'm whinging unnecessarily. You're right - it does sound surprisingly good when revved (not as good as my Puma though!!)

I did try another 1.4 at the dealer and it seemed smoother - maybe I'll ask to test drive it properly. It may be a characteristic but if my car is particularly bad I would rather exchange it if they can source another one 'cause it does feel awful...

[JoeW]

Update: The dealer have acknowledged that there is a problem and have tried plugs and coil so far, but with no success. They seem willing enough, but unfortunately don't seem to have much of a clue how to fix it... So I'm still

[Alex]

Dont put up with it ring Skoda Uk see if they can contact the dealer as they may just be ar**ing you around. If you are still not happy ask if they are willing to exchange the vehicle under the 30 day exchange, if still no luck go to the CAB and ask for advice, because from experience dealers dont like solicitors letters.

Good luck

[monkeychild]

My mate has had the same problem with his fabia 1.4mpi combi the dealer said it was normal something to do with the the engine setup for economy?????

[JoeW]

Hmmm. My dealer at least hasn't tried that line... I suspect that may be true but I've tried two other cars with the same engine and they didn't sound nearly as lumpy - that's why I'm not prepared to put up with one that is...

They're fitting a new coil pack today to see if that helps. Their logic was that 'that's what always goes wrong on Vauxhalls....' - so I don't hold out much hope...

[JoeW]

Update: i don't think the coil pack made much difference but following discussions with Skoda and the dealer, I negotiated an extra 12 months warranty 'just in case'. So I'm covered for a couple of years while I save up for the vRS (!!)

I'm still going to get it checked out by another dealer with a bit more experience, but I think I got treated fairly well in the end.

Thanks for the advice - without the knowledge on this forum I'd have been stuffed.

Cheers

[DGW]

An extra 12 months warranty is an excellent result and pretty fair too.

[Kentish]

I'm still going to get it checked out by another dealer with a bit more experience' date=' but I think I got treated fairly well in the end.

[/quote']

Sorry m8 but I would only agree if the car is fixed, and you dont need to take it to another dealer to get it sorted. Personally I think the year extension of warranty is just so that you dont complain about them or take it further.

That car should have been fixed before they let it go, they obviously know it isnt right and were just counting on you not coming back with the fault. I dont belive their "trained" mechanic who works on these cars, who knows all the traits didnt spot the fault but you did straight away. That to me says dodgy dealer, who just wants your money.

I would have given them an ultimatum.....fix the car and offer me appeasement or take the car back and tear up the financial agreement.

[AitchPee]

I've had my Fabia for 16 months and it has the 1.4MPi engine and it has always had a lumpy (or more of a shuddering) idle as the engine searches for a richer mixture, it'll run smooth for a moment then it it'll shudder for a moment and so on. I took it back to the dealer (the now defunkt Forward Motors in Luton) about a month after I had it new and spoke service advisor Graham, a very knowledgable and helpful man. He went on to explain that it was caused by the EU4 emission control system cutting the mixture down so weak that the engine starts to hunt on idle and can also cause jerkiness if you are too abrupt on and off the gas whilst driving. He said what you you have to remember is that the engine is quite an old design and not originally designed for such lean mixtures. The EU3 derivatives previously didn't have this problem which he proved to me at the time by trying one. He then put mine on the diagnostics and the readings were bang on, including all the self learning ones which adapt to a particular drivers style to keep emissions low.

Oh yes and it has always had mayo under the oil filler cap in cold weather. I was told they all do and probably caused by condensation forming in the link tube from the rocker cover to the silly plastic thingy, which means nothing for you to play with under here.

Well done JoeW for negotiating the extra 12 months warranty but I think you are chasing shadows it you are looking for a fix. I would try to ignore it and enjoy the car for its good points. These cars are far from perfect (vague clutch, notchy gearchange, bouncy-creaky suspension to name a few faults) but better than a lot of others on the market.

AitchPee

[JoeW]

I need a car now, not in three or four weeks time when it all got sorted out. The dealer actually wanted to get Skoda involved and get their technical people to come take a look to resolve the issue. It was me who suggested the extra warranty as I only need to keep the car 2 years (I'll probably trade up into a vRS then...)

The dispute was not about whether there is anything wrong, but that this characteristic was described as a fixable glitch when the car was sold to me. I think the offer of extra warranty was a fair deal to compensate for this and the week or so of mucking around....

I'm working away from home during the week (which is why I bought the car) and it is easier for me to take it to another dealer to get checked out. If needs be I can get Skoda involved at that point as the car is under full manufacturers warranty for another year. Also, the other dealer has no vested interest in telling me its OK, so if they say its normal (and it probably is judging from comments on the forum) then I'll believe them. They're a lot more experienced with Skoda too.

Also - I really like the car, despite the grumbly idle and didn't really want to give it back :-)

[JoeW]

AitchPee, your post is very interesting. You say that the newer cars have the EU4 emission control. Was the EU3 fitted to early Fabia 1.4 MPIs? That would explain why the older cars I compared mine with sounded better. Presumably the newer unit is trying to meet tougher emissions standards. You may have finally put my mind at rest. Thanks :-) Mind you, glad I negotiated the extra warranty before you posted!

[Kentish]

I need a car now' date=' not in three or four weeks time when it all got sorted out. The dealer actually wanted to get Skoda involved and get their technical people to come take a look to resolve the issue. It was me who suggested the extra warranty as I only need to keep the car 2 years (I'll probably trade up into a vRS then...)

The dispute was not about whether there is anything wrong, but that this characteristic was described as a fixable glitch when the car was sold to me. I think the offer of extra warranty was a fair deal to compensate for this and the week or so of mucking around....

I'm working away from home during the week (which is why I bought the car) and it is easier for me to take it to another dealer to get checked out. If needs be I can get Skoda involved at that point as the car is under full manufacturers warranty for another year. Also, the other dealer has no vested interest in telling me its OK, so if they say its normal (and it probably is judging from comments on the forum) then I'll believe them. They're a lot more experienced with Skoda too.

Also - I really like the car, despite the grumbly idle and didn't really want to give it back :-)[/quote']

Fair enough m8

[AitchPee]

JoeW, I think, but don't quote me on this that the EU4 contol came in sometime during 2002, possibly towards the end of the year. Mine was registered in Jan 2003 and definitely has it and the man at Skoda said that previous years cars were not afflicted and as it was very early in 2003 he possibly was thinking about 2001 year cars. Ive just rooted out a brochure dated July 2002 and that states EU4. Hope this helps.

AitchPee

[DGW]

The Fabia has had 1.4 EU4 engines since 10/99, and 1.4 EU4+3/2DDK engines since 09/00.

[AitchPee]

The Fabia has had 1.4 EU4 engines since 10/99, and 1.4 EU4+3/2DDK engines since 09/00.

Well well, perhaps I swallowed the dealer bullsh*t, I still don't think it's worth worrying about, as it is more hunting than a rough idle, the engine just shudders a bit not shake around as when running with a pot down. If you raise the revs slightly it goes away and mine's never cut out for no reason other than me stalling it. As I said before they are less than perfect cars but you can get used to their little quirks and they soon become part of the family. JUST ENJOY.

AitchPee