uprated PD Turbo

[20vK]

Hi Guys,

Has anyone installed an Allard VT6 or VT7 to their PD motor, yet? Was just about to go for a VT5 with uprated injectors, but saw that there is now a VT7 "street"

What's drivability and reliability like?

Many thanks,

Rich

[devonutopia]

I'm not aware of anyone at all that has used a 6 or 7. I run the VT5 and will shortly have uprated injectors too - I use propane at the moment for that bit more fuelling at the top end performance. It's an excellent turbo and I reckon can be pushed further than Allard claim.

[Basil]

Talk to Jason - he has the full Allard package and seems very happy indeed....

Getting it all from one place with their experience don't think you can go wrong, but also have a chat with the guys at Jabba - Luke is really helpful and enthusiastic and had a really modded Fabia....

HTH

Bas[EDIT[ don't you just hate it when you get pipped to posting summat!!!

[20vK]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys.

I spoke to Jabba, who said they didn't do anything past their hybrid turbo. For 230bhp, they claim it pumps out over 500nm (370 lb ft) torque - which seems incredibly high to me?

I've sent Allard a deposit, so just need to finalise what I'll be ordering! Uprated injectors & cams are on the list, along with the EGR bypass & turbo (not sure which one yet).

Was going to fit a 63mm exhaust and cat bypass & uprated intercooler. I've got an ali sm flywheel and spec 3+ clutch & pressure plate and am ordering a Peloquin.

How have you found the VT5? Is there much lag at all, and have there been any reliability issues at all? With your experience of the VT5 could you guess how the VT6 or VT7 would act?

Many thanks,

Rich

[devonutopia]

You're almost going to the same spec as me. I've just fitted the alu flywheel and stage 3+ from SPEC, and have got a peloquin diff now too. My exhaust is just 2.25" right through, but a bigger bore downpipe coming off the VT5. As long as the exhaust is free flowing, diameter is fairly irrelevant. Allard tell me 2.25" is fine for me for big power.

I have some lag, but you need to learn how to drive the car again. It becomes much more like a petrol, so no hoofing it below 2000rpm - It will still cruise OK, and "pull" below 2000rpm, but for fast acceleration, don't expect full power below 2500rpm. I've attached my dyno graph to show what I mean - note how peak power is way up at 4000rpm, and peak torque is also well up there too (compared to the traditional peak of 2000, then tailing off)

[Basil]

Sounds like you're going for the best mate. Bully for you!

Little bit on turbos as far as I understand it:

OEM one is a KKK (usually) VNT-17 which is limited as far as boost and airflow. All the uprated ones are made by Garrett.

A Turbodynamics stage 1 is a blueprinted toughened VNT-17.

next step up is a True hybrid: the Turbo dynamics VNT-17 turbine mated to the VNT-20 compressor. This allows more higher-end airflow with higher boost.

Last of all is a True non-hybrid VNT-20 that's used by some V6 TDI's.

Allard have confused matters by using their own marketing nomenclature to describe their series of VNT turbos that have to fall into one of the above categories. Essentially you have a choice.

Top picks? Either an all-out VNT 20 accepting that you may have a tiny bit more turbo lag (which I haven't heard anyone freely admitting to) or a hybrid VNT 17/20 which gives you theorectically the best of both worlds, at the cost of some top end BHP.

Don't go too light with the SMF or the chatter may be excessive - A Steel SMF is fine.

disclaimer: all the above is my humble opinion and is open to discussion/flaming....

HTH

Bas

[EDIT] Jason mate - you're doing it again!!!:lol

[20vK]

Thanks for that graph - makes for good reading! To be honest, you're getting 150bhp @ 2700, so your power is well up, even if there is a bit of lag. The curves seem alright to me, so I may consider a VT6, if Allard can provide injectors to suit (I want to stick with diesel, as this is my daily driver).

I think I already do drive my car as a petrol, so no worries there! The only problem I sometimes get is the throttle body seems to get "stuck" when I approach the redline and doesn't release when I take my foot off the accelerator to shift, then the soft rev limiter seems to cut in. Other than that, I'm very impressed with what VW have done!

How would you get more out of your VT5? - more boost? Are EGT's still alright, or are they getting a little high?

[20vK]

Hi Basil,

I know absolutely nothing about turbos (I'm a supercharging man), so I've been a little taken in by Allard's marketing. However, they seem to have happy customers and they get results, so I'm not too bothered by that.

I'm happy to pay the dosh as long as I end up with a rapid reliable car! I'll probably fit it all myself, so should cut down on costs that way.

Do you know what performance people are getitng from a VNT 20? Allard are claiming up to 350bhp from their VNT7, (I've asked about torque and am waiting to hear back)

[Basil]

I'll probably fit it all myself, so should cut down on costs that way.

A man after my own heart! That's exactly what I did mate -

Allard has a well-earned good reputation. Only thing is: as far as 350bhp - I'd get that in writing first, with a partial refund if you fall short by say 10-15%.

Main thing is that you are warrantied even if you do the fitting yourself. Turbo's can and do go pop for no good reason, and you want to be safe even if you fit it yourself. As do uprated injectors (as I found out to my expense). Even if you fit by the book. And then the supplier doesnt want to know you (kermatdi.com in my case)....

Personally I chose to buy a TurboDynamics Stage 2. They only build turbos and a tuner mate recommended them highly. Jabba uses the same units I believe.

Thing is - some people might say that a torquey smooth map is more fun than one which only aims for max bhp... You have to decide which is the more important.

HTH

Bas

[20vK]

Yup - Allard will guarantee the parts, as long as they do the mapping (which is fine by me)!

Since the PD is somewhat limited on revs, I would probably err towards torque, rather than balls out bhp, but it seems the two do go hand in hand! I mus say, though, that bhp would be handy on the the way to worthesee

I'll wait to hear what Allard say about their VT6 and VT7 (what ever turbos they are!) and make a choice based on the performance figures / reliability.

What kind of numbers are you getting out of your TurboDynamics Stage 2?

[devonutopia]

Well, my vt5 is only boosting to 1.9 bar, and they told me they reckon it will hold at 2.5 bar all day if needed, but I don't think I'll need that much with that. Maybe a constant 2.3 would be nice to burn all the extra diesel I'll be chucking in soon.

I had that top end, holding revs thing too - Just as my clutch was dying! Maybe your spec stage3+ couldn't come soon enough!

[Basil]

no idea at all mate as far as the number! I'm in a country that doesn't have a RR - but does have an F1 circuit.

May be moving to Abu Dhabi shortly - and they do have RR's in the Emirates.

I'm expecting a new map to arrive from the UK shortly, and my tuner Richard Washbrook is a well-known and respected tuner.

The new map will be running 2 BAR boost so should be a serious jump in power with the injectors I have.... Not to say that running 1.8 BAR the car is slow at all.....

It's all fun as long as nothing breaks by the end of the day.

[20vK]

Wow - all sounds good!

What do you think the VT5 is capable of, then! Maybe it will be enough for my use!

Agree on the reliability front - that's my number 1 concern. This is my daily, so it needs to start, stop and go!

[Basil]

tbh - learnt a lot from this site. Suggest you spend some time reading up old posts. When I joined I went through every single thread ever posted that was car-related!

Also check out other PD-related sites as well as TDI-related ones in the US.

Then you'll have a lot of info with which to decide exactly how to spend your hard-earned.

Also, I consider Jason as a teacher when it comes to modding the fabia - he is a well of modding knowledge. Take his advice over mine any day and you can't go wrong....

Good luck

Bas

[20vK]

I've actually been ghosting a lot of the sites since I bought the car about a month ago, so have read a lot about what people have been doing!

I thought I should join as it's rude to watch!

Thanks for all the advice and share of knowledge so far - it's really appreciated!

I'm trying to keep up with a chipped RS4 in May all the way to Austria, he'll have me on BHP and Torque, but I hope my economy will give me the edge! At 150 mph, he gets around 8mpg, and we reckon he's good for 180 mph (GPS verified).

[devonutopia]

I'm trying to keep up with a chipped RS4 in May all the way to Austria, he'll have me on BHP and Torque, but I hope my economy will give me the edge! At 150 mph, he gets around 8mpg, and we reckon he's good for 180 mph (GPS verified).

Good luck!

But you'll make up time when he's at the pump I suppose. Don't expect a tuned up vRS to be all that economical when pushed to high speeds though. Mines happy enough returning 60mpg at 70mph, but hold her to 120+ and you're looking at sub 30mpg (still not bad I suppose?)

[20vK]

I've had around the 40's cruising in the 90 to 120 mph region, which I'm more than happy with!

What do you think is the max bhp/lb ft output of your VT5 on uprated injectors, then Jason, without nos?

[cheezemonkhai]

Get the 6 or 7 you know you want to....

If you get the 6 I think we might see a silver fabia elegance PD100(ish) with a 7 in the not too distant

[devonmikeyboy]

Max bhp for the turbos is basically as stated on the web site. An excess of fuel without enough air from the turbo will make you loose power. A VT7 would make a very laggy diesel road car.

[20vK]

Thanks for that,

How about a VT6? What are you currently running? Some lovely torque figures there

Edit: just read the article, VT5 with propane and Nos. Don't really want to go propane and nos, so would be very interested in whether a vt6 is laggy or not, and how much extra torque it will produce to make up for the delay in boost.

Cheezemonkai: Don't forget that this is my daily driver - I already have a big-power project car I'm building, so this does need to be drivable and reliable!

[devonmikeyboy]

A VT6, i own the black Audi on Allards website. ALLARDS

[20vK]

Wow!

Very nice!

Is it laggy? When does the boost come in, and does it tail off, or continue through the rev range?

What sort of torque figure are you seeing without propane and nos?

Sorry for all the questions! Just really intreagued (sp) as I need to confirm with Allard which turbo I'm going to go for.

[devonutopia]

What do you think is the max bhp/lb ft output of your VT5 on uprated injectors, then Jason, without nos?

On stock injectors, but with propane and NOS, it's done 370 lb/ft.

I suspect on uprated injectors, it will be around this figure, possibly a smidge more if the turbo can be wound up a bit. Then there's propane on top, then there's NOS.

I will have to have a chat with Allard about the VT6.

[Basil]

DMB - I thought you were using a twin-turbo setup - how's that going???

[20vK]

Jason and Bas, you have Pm's!

Cheers, Rich