Skoda Fabia VRS - Oil/DSG Problems Part 3

[devnetVRS]

Hi Guys,

 

Been away from the old forum for a bit trying to figure out the issues with my VRS.  In my previous posts I have had issues with the DSG not being able to use kickdown mode to redline in 2nd & 4th without the DSG failing, Skoda advised a new clutch (at 23,000 miles no less), still got the issues Skoda not being very helpful trying to identify if it is a software issue from when it all started as it went in for the oil change recall.

 

Anyway my other issue is the old oil consumption, as my car is out of warrenty, after lots of frustrating converstations with Skoda they finally offered up 35% goodwill (labour only) if the faults are deemed to be manufactures ones.  They would start with an oil consumption test (for this one they said they will cover the 1 hours labour in full) they didnt make it clear but I will be paying for the oil.Then they would do the oil breather fix and then the oil squirter fix totalling something like 6 hours labour costing 600 odd quid with the good will would cost me around £400 however that doesnt include parts Im yet to find out what they will cost.  If none of this works they said it would be an engine replacement which of course even with the good will, will cost an arm and a leg and ultimately not worth my cost.

 

So my big question is do I do it?  On the basis of I could spend all that money and still have the same issue then I will have to try sell the car anyway or do I keep it and put up with it could it lead to further issues.  I have read some threads on the oil squirters but does anyone know if they really fix the issue?

 

Any views and advice is greatly apprecitated.

 

Below is a rough idea of the oil useage I have been having for reference (it has recently got worse):

 

Starting milage 19,860

 

21618 miles (1758miles) Req: 1 litre top up (didnt register on dip stick) - mix of long distance and urban miles

 

22560 miles (942miles) Req: 3/4 litre top up (bottom line on stick) - Mainly urban miles

 

23683 miles (1123miles) Req: 3/4 litre top up (bottom line on stick) - Mix urban and motorway miles

 

24125 (442 miles) Req: 1 litre top up (oil check lamp on) - Motorway/country road miles

 

24723 (598 miles) Req: 1/2 litre to middle of stick (didnt register on stick) - Urban and motorway miles

 

 

[Richf]

How many miles ? Is the car modified at all ? Did you buy it new or used ? Who has serviced it and is the servicing up to date ?

 

Reason for questions is this could well be a sales of goods act issue

[Ootohere]

You had best read some of the many long running threads in this section on Oil Users and Engine Replacement.

 

As to the DSG, the recent threads on that.

Both the Engine & DSG Failures are known by Skoda / VW to be from their Design, Manufacturing, Parts & Quality Control,

and their lack of action on these, Monitoring the many failures.

 

As to Goodwill from Skoda / VW or reduced costs to you,

hold them fully responsible, they failed to take preventative or proactive actions when many of the 1,800 MK2 vRS with thew CAVE engines were in Warranty,

& any story about now out of Warranty does not wash.

There are failures still with CTHE Engines from 2012, so that is 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136kw Twincharger engines 

from 2009-2014 failing in all 4 sister Brands, Skoda / VW /Seat & Audi.

 

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

Edited 24 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Ootohere]

Probably this is the best time to be speaking with 

Skoda, VW, Audi, Seat Customer Services.

Because there is little doubt that the Volkswagen Group have had Design & Manufacturing and workmanship failures.

& they need to improve Warranty & after Sales problems,

Even out of Warranty Issues, where they knew of the failure rates when in Warranty.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/352016-audi-a5-consumes-1-litre-of-oil-every-250-miles

[Richf]

I think time for speaking is gone , its clear from the first post that Skoda have already been approached

 

My tact would be a claim under the Sales of Goods act , the goods are not fit for purpose and not of merchantable quality , there is a known and well demonstrated issue with some of these engines

 

It is not reasonable for a car to require an engine rebuild after 5 years and that many miles (presuming that the op has written the current mileage) 

[wesleyuk]

did you bought the car from skoda? 

[devnetVRS]

Thanks for the replies.  I have read all the topics, just not convinced enough with the results on the squirters on the basis of me spending the money to do the work on the off chance of it not working.  But I have to do something...might try push Skoda further for a better deal.  Ultimately I would argue that if all these fixes are done surely they are admitting that the engine was not fit for purpose on sale.

[daz1412]

I managed to push Škoda to 90% of labour and parts. Bare In mind my car was out of warranty, bought second hand and did have service history. The problems were present from 14,000 miles. I also got a 2 year warranty. I did battle my case out for nearly a year with them but I wouldn't roll over and let them tickle your belly. Fight them until you're happy or at least satisfied. For me I ended up paying £600 or so. That was for an engine and turbocharger, I think the supercharger stayed. After getting an oil refund Id payed about £400 which after a year of hell pushing for it wasn't to bad IMO. I think 35% is an absolute joke when you take into consideration the mileage.

[alloyvee]

Hi Guys,

 

Been away from the old forum for a bit trying to figure out the issues with my VRS.  In my previous posts I have had issues with the DSG not being able to use kickdown mode to redline in 2nd & 4th without the DSG failing, Skoda advised a new clutch (at 23,000 miles no less), still got the issues Skoda not being very helpful trying to identify if it is a software issue from when it all started as it went in for the oil change recall.

 

Anyway my other issue is the old oil consumption, as my car is out of warrenty, after lots of frustrating converstations with Skoda they finally offered up 35% goodwill (labour only) if the faults are deemed to be manufactures ones.  They would start with an oil consumption test (for this one they said they will cover the 1 hours labour in full) they didnt make it clear but I will be paying for the oil.Then they would do the oil breather fix and then the oil squirter fix totalling something like 6 hours labour costing 600 odd quid with the good will would cost me around £400 however that doesnt include parts Im yet to find out what they will cost.  If none of this works they said it would be an engine replacement which of course even with the good will, will cost an arm and a leg and ultimately not worth my cost.

 

So my big question is do I do it?  On the basis of I could spend all that money and still have the same issue then I will have to try sell the car anyway or do I keep it and put up with it could it lead to further issues.  I have read some threads on the oil squirters but does anyone know if they really fix the issue?

 

Any views and advice is greatly apprecitated.

 

Below is a rough idea of the oil useage I have been having for reference (it has recently got worse):

 

Starting milage 19,860

 

21618 miles (1758miles) Req: 1 litre top up (didnt register on dip stick) - mix of long distance and urban miles

 

22560 miles (942miles) Req: 3/4 litre top up (bottom line on stick) - Mainly urban miles

 

23683 miles (1123miles) Req: 3/4 litre top up (bottom line on stick) - Mix urban and motorway miles

 

24125 (442 miles) Req: 1 litre top up (oil check lamp on) - Motorway/country road miles

 

24723 (598 miles) Req: 1/2 litre to middle of stick (didnt register on stick) - Urban and motorway miles

Uses less oil than mine......cool

[Ootohere]

The main thing i see about the Oil Use with the OP's Engine is.

Is it ever actually running with the correct quantity of oil in.

 

If the Oil is not showing on the Dip Stick, or on the bottom orange ball, it is very unlikely that putting in 1 litre will have the engine oil 

back up at the correct quantity for running the engine.

Many cars can still not have a 'Yellow Low Oil Level Warning light' or Message Show and be 1.5 litres low of oil.

Which in this engine more than 1/3rd below capacity.

Some Cars have a 'Red Low Oil Pressure light' or Message show before a 'Yellow Low Oil Level Light' or Message shows.

 

Best to check a Cars Oil Level when it is Stone Cold and the engine unstarted before a journey,

Then you know you have enough Oil, then you can do a Hot Check when the Engine / Engine Oil is Hot.

[Hellboy]

Guys, I don't know if you are informed, but the solution to the problem is issued (for 1.4tsi 180hp). After two replaced engines, I contacted them by e-mail and complained. After that my dealer was informed, and told to inform me aswell, that they are working on the final solution to the problem.

 

Two months later my dealer recieved a set of oil injectors to replace mine (smaller capacity injecors). They reduced oil consumption by 60%.

 

Also, there is one more thing that was my idea from the start - heat overloading, that damages oil and makes it much less resistant to burning, so I delt with that too: my Fabia has two big vents on the bonnet taken from Focus RS, and I had front grill cutted too. From that moment on - oil is there, 100% so far. And hoping to manage regular service without adding more oil.

 

P.S. Price of the injectors was round 40 euro.

Edited 28 April, 2015 by Hellboy

[Ootohere]

Good that the Oil Spray Jets worked for you.

They must have been working on it for a long time now,

but the last CAVE engines were sold in new cars back in 2012.

Now they are trying fitting the New Spray Jets to failing CTHE Engine.

*And Skoda Customer Services UK are telling other Owners they have never heard of this Modification.*

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/341062-cave-oil-consumption-fix-updated-two-days-ago-by-vag

 

Truth is they are just trying to put the matter to bed, and its not going to happen, because they still have not done a Service 

Campaign to Inspect & Update all cars,

or even Update their Employees on the Issues and various attempts to hide the Fundamental Design & Manufacturing faults.

Edited 28 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[alloyvee]

My car (late 2012, early CTHE) uses a fairly consistent 650ml per 1000kms.. Unless it's all highway, and then as low as 300ml/1000kms. I generally do a lot of short trips of only 11kms to and from work. Just enough time for it to get to operating temp. It is going into the dealer next week for an ECU update (must be a very new thing). It plays with the oil pressure. Reducing it. See how that goes. They seem to be trying to reduce pressure to stop the engine from spraying so much oil around through the oil jets and having it misting up and the engine breathing it in. Basically the oil jet fix using software. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Ootohere]

Thanks for that.

 

Owners of early CTHE cars in the uk,  Last Quarter 2012 have been told by Skoda UK Customer Services & Skoda Official Dealerships that there there is not a Software / ECU update available for their cars.

 

How it should go on cars 2 1/2 years old is that Skoda should get the cars into Qualified Technicians and have the latest New Version 

of the engines installed at the Manufacturers Expense.

 

So that will be ones with the latest Internal Components including Oil Spray Jets, Breather & Inlet Manifolds, Spark Plugs, Coils,

& Software.

 

If they Designed & Manufactured a Product that has proved not fit for purpose and they accepted that by numerous Updates & Upgrades 

all at the disruption and expense to the buyers / owners it is time to call a halt to that.

Fix their cars once and for all, or buy them back and compensate the owner.

 

4 1/2 years since the first issues with the Skoda Twinchargers soon after the launch & with the first cars supplied in some cases 

& 5 Years with the SEAT.

http://honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/skoda/fabia-vrs-2010/?section=good

Edited 28 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[vxh26]

<snip>

[skoda / VAG] still have not done a Service Campaign to Inspect & Update all cars,

<snip>

Fundamental Design & Manufacturing faults.

Two points arise here:

1. You are making the assumption that Skoda / VAG know precisely what is causing this excessive oil usage in all cases and how to correct it - it is most unlikely that a single solution will apply in all cases and they aren't likely to apply the solution(s) to every car on the road "on spec".
2. What "inspection" do you suggest that Skoda / VAG should carry out? Perhaps a full 620 mile oil usage test? They have in a number of cases applied a variety of solutions, including changing the entire engine - some may have worked, not all appear to have done so.

There are likely to be a wide range of contributing factors contributing to causing the excessive oil usage problem - journey type, driving style, unapproved engine modifications being the three most obvious. By all accounts there are problems with the higher capacity variants of the twincharger engine and it may well be the case that VAG have made a mistake in trying optimistically to extract a quart from a pint pot. VAG will have invested a lot in the twincharger engine, I am sure that they would love to learn why it has suffered problems.

 

Skoda have made the pragmatic and eminently sensible decision not to announce a Mk. III vRS. The number of the Mk.II vRS cars sold is not huge and it is clearly not a key market for them.

 

 

<snip>

Skoda should get the cars into Qualified Technicians and have the latest new version of the engines installed at the Manufacturer's expense.

<snip>

Fix their cars once and for all, or buy them back and compensate the owner.

Even you cannot seriously believe that that is going to happen  - EVER? /ROFL/

Edited 28 April, 2015 by vxh26

[alloyvee]

I think this ECU update is a very new thing. A couple of weeks old maybe.

[Ootohere]

vxh26.

Skoda / VW / Seat / Audi could change the Service Schedule for Spark Plugs, 

& they could offer a 'Service Campaign',  where they ensure that Registered Keepers / Owners can be told what the latest 

Updates & Enhancements are available for their particular Car / Engine.

 

ie, Breather Pipe Valve mod Mk2, ECU / Software Update, Oil Spray Jets.

If the Owners has no Issues then they may not wish anything doing.

But the opportunity should have been offered, and all Factory Trained Main Dealer Technicians & Service Desk & Customer Service Employees 

should be Informed on the Design, Manufacturing & Servicing & Updating Failures.

 

Simple Stuff really.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

*Many have been perfectly OK over the 5 years, and lots have failed, but VW kept on building and selling,

and surely the should be fit to use as a Passenger car to use as Family Transport around the World,

because its just sold as a car, not some Sports Car.*

 

PS

vxh26,

have SEAT now stopped selling the Ibiza Cupra with the 1.4TSI 132 kw Twincharger / DSG?

The Engine that was failing was a Euro 5 Emission Engine.

 

The 2015 Polo GTI DSG now has a quoted 192 ps Engine which is a 1.8 TSI,

but with the Same Quoted NM as the 1.4TSI when fitted with a DSG.

 

PPS

Not a big global sales success with the Mk2 Fabia vRS, best selling in the UK.

& more than twice as many as the Sister Cars with the 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kw from VW,

& Seat & 6 times as many of the Audi in the UK.

So by proportion of those other model versions, the Skoda version was a greater success.

Edited 28 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Ootohere]

alloyvee.

The UK is a bit nearer to Germany & the Czech Republic than Australia,  but a phone call or Email takes near the same time 

to reach the Customer Services Head Quarters and for the Countries Importers to communicate with the Official Outlets & Dealership 

Master Technicians & Service Desk Staff.

 

Less secrecy & denials from the various Volkswagen Group Divisions might have made a minor failure less wide spread,

ie Global Failures.

 

VW can learn all they like about an engine they are discontinuing, and which they have moved on from,

but let them pay for the Trial & Error and not using paying customers to be Road Testers for their failures and trials 

at Developing Fixes.

 

Other Manufacturers are getting on very well with the Dual Charging Technology in their latest engines,

including one Car & Engine Builder headed by the Ex VW USA CEO.

Edited 28 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[alloyvee]

alloyvee.

The UK is a bit nearer to Germany & the Czech Republic than Australia,  but a phone call or Email takes near the same time 

to reach the Customer Services Head Quarters and for the Countries Importers to communicate with the Official Outlets & Dealership 

Master Technicians & Service Desk Staff.

 

Less secrecy & denials from the various Volkswagen Group Divisions might have made a minor failure less wide spread,

ie Global Failures.

 

Yeah, distance means nothing now.We all live next door these days.

[devnetVRS]

I managed to push Škoda to 90% of labour and parts. Bare In mind my car was out of warranty, bought second hand and did have service history. The problems were present from 14,000 miles. I also got a 2 year warranty. I did battle my case out for nearly a year with them but I wouldn't roll over and let them tickle your belly. Fight them until you're happy or at least satisfied. For me I ended up paying £600 or so. That was for an engine and turbocharger, I think the supercharger stayed. After getting an oil refund Id payed about £400 which after a year of hell pushing for it wasn't to bad IMO. I think 35% is an absolute joke when you take into consideration the mileage.

 

Daz sounds like you had a similar situation as me, any chance you could give me any specific details/who you talked to at Skoda UK so I could quote them to try get more leverage?!

 

Update on situation, it had its official oil consumption test which they paid for.

 

Standard: 0.5 litres over 1000 k/m

 

Actual: 1.35 litres over 1000 k/m

 

So more than double the recommended.  They have advised the oil breather pipes/filter, ECU update and oil injector replacements.  Total costs about £720 odd, Skoda UK will pay about £220 and I would have to pay £500 odd.  Bar not really being able to afford this fix at the moment, I am reluctant to want to pay anything on the basis that its a manufacuters fault from new (which I finally got them to say the words over the phone today) but they will not budge on the 35% contribution.  I am tempted to start mailing the likes of Motor Codes etc. etc. but not sure what good it will take and the time...

[Ootohere]

Who have you been dealing with at Skoda UK Customer Services, 

a Customer Services Manager like John Good, Tom Chadwick, Dan Wilson or others?

 

Do you have in writing from Skoda UK that this is the full amount of the contribution they will be making?

 

The car has clearly been faulty while covered by the Original Manufacturers Warranty.

...................................

 

?

Can you just update top save reading the previous posts.

When was this car Built & First Registered, when did you buy it, with how many miles when you bought it,

and how many miles covered now?

 

.....................................

See post #8

This is a whole different thing getting a replacement engine and havinmg to pay 10% on a car out of the Original Warranty.

Edited 10 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[gritdog88]

Currently going through the same. I had to pay gor my oil consumption test and am currently 50miles into my 182mile requirement before i take it back to be measured. When the result comes back that it is high i am dreading the number they are going to say to fix the problem