Well, as the title says, I've got a new car! A replacement for my original purchase.

 

I bought a new Skoda Fabia DSG Hatch with the 1.2TSI 110ps engine last September. It was a great car. But...the engine made a knocking noise at start up. It made the noise right from the word go. Initially it made the noise at irregular intervals when cold and hot. But it progressed to making the noise at every start up when hot. Then it would be ok for a few days and then make the noise again at nearly every start up. It also made a screeching noise on three occasions during driving. This noise was not a belt slipping either. After initial disbelief from Skoda, some investigations were carried out (including an independent report by the RAC) and it was thought the noise was 'valve bucket' noise. In all honesty it sounded like big end knock, but clearly it was not. The noise was embarrassing at times, it was so loud. At first the oil filter was replaced to make sure the anti drainback was working ok. That made no difference. Then it was thought that the anti drain back valve in the camshaft variable valve timing mechanism was faulty. I was told oil was leaking out. So that valve was replaced. Again that made no difference. The noise continued but was now more intermittent again.  Concerned about the engine and it's longevity, I began a formal complaint to Skoda Uk who I have to say were very good and concerned to help. As were Skoda/VW Finance who were absolutely brilliant. It took a while but after around 4 and half months and lots of emails and phone calls, the car was replaced and I was kept on my original 0% PCP plan. That was great. The only thing I changed about the car when the replacement was ordered was the colour. Otherwise, it's the same. On top of changing the car, Skoda and Skoda/VW Finance also threw in some compensation as did the dealer for all the heartache and lack of bonding to the original new car. It did kind of spoil the new car experience. So now I couldn't be happier. Needless to say, the new car does not make the knocking noise that the first car made. It has so far only completed 450 miles though, but I'm not expecting any problem. The only other thing I would say is my dealer's master tech was very very helpful in reaching a conclusion to the problem. He was even sent to my home to listen to the problem and he filmed the whole thing for me and took the engine temperature before the engine was started. It knocked like a good un too! 

 

My point to all this is to say that although it can be frustrating to have a problem, if you follow the right channels and the fault is real, it can be dealt with if you make you case politely and correctly with the right people. It helps if you keep your dealer onside. And don't rely on emails to Skoda but use them as a backup to phone calls to the right person. I found everyone at Skoda and Skoda/VW Finance to be very professional and concerned. At the end of all this I had a phone call from the head of Skoda's customer resolutions team to tell me of the results of their investigations and that they were going to replace my car for me. I'm sure it doesn't always go so well for some folks who may have to fight their case for whatever reason but this is just my experience. And just as a footnote, there does not seem to be any intrinsic engine knocking faults with the TSI engine like the one I had. I've not heard it on any other TSI engines in the way my car had it. So no one should worry about this. Mine was a bit of a one off. 

Well done.

Maybe just a one off or a 1% of, but then those reporting Misfire Under Load and getting not very far with Skoda Uk, 

or out of Warranty having bought a Mk3 Fabia in Ireland might have other ideas.

 

Just as well they are discontinuing Euro 6 1.2TSI so soon after they were introduced, and going to 1.0TSI's.

 

Maybe the Mods can pin your post, as others might just want Consistent treatment from Skoda UK or Skoda Importers in any country.

That's interesting to hear. Of course they never document what's 'normal' for a peculiar engine like the 1.2 TSI in the manual (except for some vague statement that applies in the first minute of start-up when it's cold that's been in every VAG manual I can remember). Mine made a 'croaking' noise at hot when idle at first, it seems to be OK now after the cam belt, pulleys and VVT actuator were changed. Apparently the belt was slightly over-tight from the factory. I heard the same noise on the courtesy car I had while this work was being done.

Awayoffski, thanks! The misfire thing is not an intrinsic issue. In fact, the latest 1.2TSI engines in 90/110ps form are one of the most trouble free 4 cylinder units they currently have. It's very well sorted, reliable, very smooth, quiet, and tough as old boots. The reason it's being replaced is due to emissions. Euro 7 will be very difficult for that engine to meet and retain it's nice driveability. This is the case for a whole host of engines from many manufacturers. The 3 cylinder units offer the chance to have a much cleaner engine for all sorts of reasons and will be able to easily meet Euro 7, not least of all, because of considerably reduced internal friction. 

 

Regarding warranty issues...this was an area I have been involved with during my time in the motor trade. It's important to say most warranty claims go through without any issues. But some types of claim can only be looked at on an individual basis due to the nature of the claim/fault and/or the timing ie: just out of warranty or very out of warranty. For me rejecting a car is a last resort. I gave the dealer/manufacturer a couple of goes at fixing the fault with my car but ended up rejecting it due to concerns about longevity of the engine and the fact that they didn't seem to be able to fix it. The main problems come when someone gets a big problem due to a manufacturing fault that has not been fully proven. Obviously, folks will speak as they find, but for me, my experience was ok, if not a bit lengthy. You do have to be persistent and professional in the way you present your case. Clarity in each of your communications is imperative and should be in writing to back up your phone calls. Skoda UK always called me back when they said they would, as did Skoda/VW Finance, who as the owners of my car, were incredibly helpful in getting the result I needed. I've not complaints.

Edited 30 March, 20179 yr by Estate Man

That will be he among the most recent 4 cylinder engines  they have and low powered but still not issue free.

Best time to know how a 3 year old engine is is after they have been on general release for 3 years.

Difficult to know before 3 years has passed obviously, difficult to know how they will be as a 5 year old engine since VW like paying customers to be the Road Testers.

 

We know what Euro 7 emissions is supposed to be, but by then there will be new testing that the engines they were preparing for the outdated testing will not meet.

and we know that some or many Euro 6 get the EU test results and the real world Co2 / NoX is just ridiculous.

 

So what was the almost unique fault with the build of your 1.2TSI Euro 6 engine?

Edited 30 March, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

That's the issue Awayoffski, they couldn't be exact with what the issue was. As an ex tech I have my own theories as did Skoda. It could and may have been some porosity within the cylinder head/camshaft journals, it could have been debris inside the motor causing problems with anti-drainback devices. It would have needed a complete strip to find the actual issue/s. In my particular circumstances, it was actually cheaper to replace the car rather than replace the engine or strip the old motor. This is again not an intrinsic issue with the 1.2TSI engine, but an unfortunate rare problem sometimes encountered by all manufacturers.  What issues are you referring too regarding this engine?

Edited 30 March, 20179 yr by Estate Man

I replaced a couple of high pressure fuel pumps on the latest 1.2TSI engines for engine knock sounding noises.

 

Skoda were very reluctant to believe that they were the cause but they stopped the noise and solved the problem!

Estateman,

the engine is surely stripped now or the engine replaced so the expense is still being incurred just not at your inconvenience, the car has not been scrapped, 

so back in the Trade on a forecourt someplace with just the remainder of the manufacturers warranty.

 

As long as lessons are learned and the Factory pays attention and now other owners can gain knowledge from your experience then all is good, 

but then pigs might fly.

At least if any Skoda UK Customer Services Communication Managers say that they referred it to the technical department and they are unaware of any issues, 

and a car can not be rejected and replaced they can be referred to your case and Dealership / Master Tech.

Estateman, can you post the Registration Number of the rejected car so that anyone looking to buy a used one will know it's history if the Salesperson does not want to mention it, or there is no clear record of an engine strip down and rebuild or engine replacement?

(Them selling it as a Low Mileage 'Ex Management car' is not on obviously unless you are 'Management'.)

Edited 31 March, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

Awayoffski, someone being referred to my case is of little or no value. Each claim for rejection is looked at very closely by Skoda etc and the circumstances for each rejection can be very different, causes very different etc etc. 

 

Regarding me posting my old registration number. I'm choosing not to do that as whoever buys the car won't have any issues with it I'm sure. It will be fixed and yes it will be eventually sold. I don't want to make things harder for my dealer to sell it, as inevitably, posting the reg number will do. I made sure everything was recorded in the cars history at national level so anyone wanting to buy it can check that, just as anyone buying a secondhand car should be doing. So no need to worry. 

Was it the Dealership that took the Hit on the exchange of vehicle, was it not Skoda UK the Importer and Warranty Provider that bought the car back?

 

Good outcome anyway, and it will indeed be used in the future to show that Skoda UK can do the right thing, and it is not unusual really, 

but sadly not common enough.

 

As to being sure on the Recording of the Warranty History and a new owner being informed, 

that is why buyers must 'Ask',  because unless lots changed recently then it is not the case that everything is so well recorded, 

not even Like for Like Engine Replacements.

Edited 31 March, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

Yes indeed Awayoffski. My whole experience with rejecting the car was a bit of a trial (all these things are) but it was made much more bearable by Skoda UK and indeed Skoda/VW Finance and my dealer (all three took a percentage of the hit) who were all helpful, reassuring and sympathetic at every stage. I was also given compensation in the form of cash and car accessories to go with the new car. I couldn't have been treated better. On top of which, I now have a 2017 car instead of a 2016 car and I've been kept on the same '0%' APR pcp deal of which I have already paid 6 months worth of payments off. My dealers service manager and lead master tech were instrumental in helping to get it sorted and they worked very closely with Skoda UK and Skoda/VW Finance to explain the facts and co-ordinate independent reports etc. Although because of the nature of the fault it did take sometime to conclude, about 4.5 months. Because I'm buying the car on a PCP it was Skoda/VW Finance (the car owners) that took the lead in handling my claim. I have checked the car's history through my dealer and Skoda UK to make sure everything is recorded. I'm assured any repairs will also be recorded. Over the last 9 years I've spent around £35k with my dealer. Ok that's not a huge amount these days but it is to me. He appreciates that fact and was keen to help. 

 

It's worth noting too, for anyone who is having a problem that they believe is worthy of a rejection of the car, that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 helps considerably in making sure you can get a resolution more easily. But I'd strongly recommend also, that anyone with a problem like mine speaks to Citizens Advice (who are linked to Trading Standards) and speak with one of their lawyers who can explain your rights and follow you case at each stage. They will automatically link your case to Trading Standards with your permission. Enormously useful and they make everything clear to you on what to do and how to do it. Contact is by a national telephone number and they will call back if they are busy. I used them a lot during a 3 month period and it's a free service at point of delivery.

I have to say I have the exact opposite to say about Citizen's Advice and Trading Standards, who were as much use as a chocolate teapot when trying to sort out my previous car (an elderly Focus sold by a less than scrupulous dealer, legal action still progressing 16 months after the initial fault!). 

 

Really glad you're all sorted with your issues, and I agree on the Consumer Rights Act 2015. It's a nicely written piece of legislation, easy enough for the lay person to understand and very clear in what it sets out. 

vc, yes used cars can be a nightmare to get redress over depending on the fault and how good the dealer is. Good luck with your claim.

Maybe we should start a library thread of 1.2 TSI noises...

Dont you just love how VW avoid 'issues' with their engines by making them obsolete and launching a new ones all the time?

 

Why dont they just get it right in the first place?

 

Hoping my 1.2 TSi 110 will be ok...

 

 

2 hours ago, glosrich said:

Dont you just love how VW avoid 'issues' with their engines by making them obsolete and launching a new ones all the time?

 

Why dont they just get it right in the first place?

 

Hoping my 1.2 TSi 110 will be ok...

 

 

 

Hope mine is too,it's been great up to now,no problems and a pleasure to drive.

glosrich, Rick, you genuinely don't need to worry about your engines. The 110ps 1.2TSI is a great engine and a major re-development of the earlier version with the issues ironed out. There doesn't seem to be any intrinsic problems at all with this motor. In fact, inspite of this motor being out for over three years now, my dealer has yet to strip one down (apart from my one off motor issue). Just no intrinsic issues with it. Many taxis going around with them in and lots of reps cars too so some very high milers out there with no issues. Not saying some folks haven't had a problem but there aren't any recurring intrinsic ones. And all manufacturers get the odd one go wrong due to one reason or another, sometimes a production issue (perhaps like mine) or a component failure due to metal fatigue of some kind, or the owner doing something naughty with it. So relax and enjoy. Glosrich, the 4 cylinder unit is only being superseded due to emission standards related to Euro 7, due to come live in 2019/20. This unit simply cannot meet those standards and keep is nice driveability. Lots of manufacturers are in the same boat and you will see many of them scrambling to get their 3 cylinder units out in the field in readiness for Euro 7.

Lovely stuff, but you seem to maybe have your head in the sand and do not follow VW Polo forums.

Obviously the failures are few given how many Euro 6 1.2tsi have been produced, but there are issues.

 

As to scrambling to produce 3 cylinder engines for Euro 7 emissions it is the VW Group scrambling very much after the little 2015 incident then the further Co2 Irregularities caught out with errors in Bluemotions etc.

VW Group have had plenty of experience of building petrol and diesel 3 cylinder engines, and oddly seem to have a water pump issue after all these years with the 1.4TDI Euro 6.   They seem to not be able to get things right for getting them wrong.

Should have bought those clothes pegs from the little old lady or just do more R&D and source good components.

Edited 5 April, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

I'm wondering what issues you keep referring to...I've been on the VW site for years as a regular and fail to understand what you are going on about Awayoffski. Please tell! As an ex-master tech myself, I'm intrigued to know. The 1.4TDI is not the engine we are talking about here and the water pump seal issue is temporary and again is annoying but is something that affects all manufacturers from time to time including Honda, Nissan and many other makes. It's usually down to the material used to make the seals out of and these come from external suppliers. This causes problems with some engine coolants abrading the seals and wearing them out very quickly. Shouldn't happen but unfortunately it does on occasions. Remember we (or more precisely you) are talking about alleged TSI 1.2 intrinsic issues, and not someone with a misfire caused by faulty spark plugs or a faulty coil pack, a coolant leak from a hose or whatever. My nephew is a VW trained technician of over 12 years experience and he too says they are not encountering any intrinsic Mk3 TSI 1.2 issues which is inline with what my Skoda tech is saying. VW group are not scrambling to get there motors out as they already have them, but many of the other european makes are working hard at catchup. You only have to read the motoring press to see that. 

Edited 5 April, 20179 yr by Estate Man

http://uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?t=67336 

Thanks Awayoffski, but I know about that small issue. The research I did several months ago before I bought my car with this engine in it shows it was pretty much a non event caused by a problem with pulleys/seals on the CVVT mechanism. Inspite of what you may have read only four actual engines were damaged and none in this country that I'm aware of. I fully discussed this with Skoda UK sometime ago, and with my techs. My nephew was involved with the research on this with VW as were other techs in the VW group. Skoda do not appear to have been affected, backed up by the lack of any discussion about it on this site. Not like the VRs issues that were intrinsic to bad design and problems with producing the engine to the high standards required for a performance engine of that type.

It is a pity this member has not been back to say how he got on.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/423231-12-tsi-total-engine-failure 

Yes it is. I suspect there is more to that story than meets the eye and we are only hearing half of it. As James the technician says, the TSI 1.2/1.4 is a very good engine without issues although he is aware of the early CVVT issue on some early engines. I think it's worth noting that all manufacturers have some issues with early engines, not just Skoda/VW group. I know, I've worked on and dealt with many many different makes of car.

Very true.

But then lets get real, these engines are about Evolution not Revolution and just VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK so the biggest car manufacturer in the world takes the total p!55 when they get Sourcing of parts and putting engines together wrong time after time since Euro4, Euro5 & Euro6, 

we can all be VW Fanboys but there are none as blind as those that will not see.

 

VW get it wrong too often then move on and get it wrong again, and them move on, 

maybe small numbers, but then all they need to do is fezz up!