Rapid Spaceback 1.6TDi Emissions recall

[NeilJohnson]

I own 64 plate Rapid Spaceback.

It was due it's major service so I took it to the Skoda Platinum dealer in Bath.

They told me they needed to carry out the emissions recall work.  I was assured it would make no difference to the performance or efficiency of the engine.

As far as I am aware the fix for my type of engine is a remap of the ECU and an air flow straightener put into air intake system.

The service guy explained that nothing would be adjusted as it was just a removal of the piece of code that made the car run in less power mode in MOT conditions.

On picking up my car and driving it home I noticed immediately that the performance was limited.

The car no longer picked as well in low revs in any gear.  There was no noticeable pull until 1700 rpm in second gear and no noticeable pickup in 3rd hardly at all.

I spoke to the dealer who said they have done many 2.0TDi emissions recall fixes with minimal complaints, but only a few 1.6TDi fixes.

They still maintain that nothing in the emissions fix would have affected the performance and it was the service that could have affected something else.  They are having the car back in first thing Monday and say they will rectify the problem.

 

Where do I stand on getting the emissions recall work undone?

 

If anyone else is looking to get this work done I would do your own research and decide if you think it is really worth it.

 

[RMurphy195]

Please keep us up to date on this -I have one of these.

[Breezy_Pete]

26 minutes ago, NeilJohnson said:

explained that nothing would be adjusted as it was just a removal of the piece of code that made the car run in less power mode in MOT conditions.

A poor understanding by the staff at that dealership then.

[MarkRawlinson52]

I got the same letter saying we can now sort the emissions problem 

however i get mine serviced at a local none frachised garage, and after reading about the problems that have been incurred with VW etc I shall not be taking my 1.6 to a Skoda dealer for rectification or services, it is not a legal requirement to have this done, also the car has passed 2 MOT's with no problem.  

[NeilJohnson]

I now have my car back in exactly and same limited performance.  I should be realistic here and clarify that when I say limited I mean it feels like it is running at about 75% of its original performance.

 

Both the service manager and head technician drove my car and said it performed as it should.  I was told to 'not believe everything I read on the internet as this is spread by people who don't know what they are talking about'.

I pointed out that I have driven the car for almost two years and I had gotten used to how it drives, so I was by far the best judge of this.

 

This was the 'clever' part the ECU map update may have deleted my driving style history, so the car would be in default mode and this would change as I drove the car more.  The service manager couldn't be specific about how long this process would take, but it could be 'up to 10,000 miles'.  It is not even a subtle way to say go away and stop annoying us.

I queried whether the ECU update always wipes out the history of a person's driving style and they got a bit more vague and pushed it back as 'that's the information we get from Skoda'.

 

I asked if the ECU map could be reverted and was told it couldn't.  As this would mean Skoda we willfully providing me with a known ECU map that cheat the emissions test. Suddenly they seemed very moral.  The air flow redirector cannot be removed either as it would cause problems with the new updated ECU map.

So I am left with an under performing car and no 'official' way round it.  I spoke to an after market tuner who can undo all the software and hardware changes for about £150.

 

Platinum Skoda Bath have raised the case with Skoda UK as, can you believe it, I am the first person to complain after having the emissions recall work done.  I am expecting this to go no where.

Separately I have raised a complaint with Skoda UK and am awaiting a call back from one of there emissions specialists.

 

In short do not get the emissions work done, do not sign any paper work to allow them to do the work.

I am extremely disappointed with the outcome.

[Ootohere]

Amazing how few have seemingly had 'The Fix' and complained about issues. Or how few DEalership employees say are complaining,

1% only VW Group says.

But then that is being found out to not be truthful since VW Group owned many of the vehicles leased and VW Group will not complain to themselves about vehicles they apply 'The Fix' to as they are returned at end of leases etc and going for sale as Used Vehicles, Ex Management etc.

 

But then since Skoda have only started doing the 1.6TDI CR in the UK and if yours was the 2nd one PLATINUM SKODA BATH have done and you complained that would be 50% for their dealership.

(Lets ignore the 2.0 & 1.2 Diesels that were only a Software Update.)

 

Bertie90 in this thread has had 'The Fix',

no doubt the employees at the dealership say the same thing, 'first one we have had issues with'.

(A change from the 'they all do that', that was the phrase taught on day one at a Car Dealership.)

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/419527-ea-189-latest-news/?page=2 

Edited 20 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[moley]

On 6/18/2017 at 21:51, NeilJohnson said:

I own 64 plate Rapid Spaceback.

It was due it's major service so I took it to the Skoda Platinum dealer in Bath.

They told me they needed to carry out the emissions recall work.  I was assured it would make no difference to the performance or efficiency of the engine.

As far as I am aware the fix for my type of engine is a remap of the ECU and an air flow straightener put into air intake system.

The service guy explained that nothing would be adjusted as it was just a removal of the piece of code that made the car run in less power mode in MOT conditions.

On picking up my car and driving it home I noticed immediately that the performance was limited.

The car no longer picked as well in low revs in any gear.  There was no noticeable pull until 1700 rpm in second gear and no noticeable pickup in 3rd hardly at all.

I spoke to the dealer who said they have done many 2.0TDi emissions recall fixes with minimal complaints, but only a few 1.6TDi fixes.

They still maintain that nothing in the emissions fix would have affected the performance and it was the service that could have affected something else.  They are having the car back in first thing Monday and say they will rectify the problem.

 

Where do I stand on getting the emissions recall work undone?

 

If anyone else is looking to get this work done I would do your own research and decide if you think it is really worth it.

 

Did you put your VIN number into the Skoda website to see if it was part of the recall programme? The reason I ask this is because my 14 plate 1.6 Octavia was not subject to the emissions recall.

[NeilJohnson]

Yes, I checked and my car was subject to the emissions recall.  I think I will  be going down the after market route to get the work reverted.  I will post back on here if I have any update from Skoda UK or the dealer in Bath.  Or if I get the after market tuning done.

[RMurphy195]

My apologies if I have take this thread offtopic a bit, though I think we can all see NeilJohnsons problem very clearly. but I think I should comment on driving style history.

 

While on holiday recently (last week!) I did wonder about this - on holiday I tow a caravan, and had noticed that after such a holiday sometimes I felt that the car wasn't giving the same consumption for a couple of days, then all seemed OK.

 

So this time around I decided to see if I could detect any evidence of the car adapting to driving style.

 

Before I start I should point out that the part of the country I was driving in was the North York Moors, whereas it's normally around Birmingham or a motorway trip at motorway speeds.

 

In Yorkshire I had perhaps the best fuel consumption ever over the moors on day trips (no caravan) - cruising on a light throttle at 50-60 is quite different to hammering up the motorway at 60 with a caravan - indicated consumption at >70mpg compared with 32mpg! These were on consecutive days.

 

But apart from that, we have had the car for a little over 2 years now, and 27k miles - and the consumption over that time (real, measured by recording fuel purchased v miles driven between fill ups) has changed very little during that time, apart from the usual Winter v Summer anomalies (warm-up on short journeys).

 

I say we -my driving style in the Rapid is quite different to my driving style in my MX5. And my wife shares the Rapid and her style differs greatly from mine. And I can normally tell by the fuel consumption when I fill it up - I get higher mpg the she does driving in the same places under the same circumstances, and if it really adapted over 10,000 miles I simply would not expect to see such a difference.

 

Thus IMHO if there is a "learnt driving style" in the computer it adapts itself pretty quick - otherwise when I hook the caravan on I would expect a lack of pulling power for quite a while after hooking up (I don't) and perhaps a quite different level of economy after unhooking (I don't). Ditto when we swop drivers!

 

So I simply cannot believe a 10,000 mile cycle at all.

 

And I do agree - who wouldn't - about knowing your car - this is after all how you know when something is going wrong, the car feels wrong. If the OP feels the car is down on power/feels sluggish etc. then the OP knows what he/she is talking about.

 

BTW I have never, ever had the regen light come on on this car yet.

[eyegr]

I don't buy this "learnt driving style" nonsense. Apart from the fact that it was used an obvious excuse for the lack of power after "the fix", albeit a cunning one, IF such a thing existed don't you think that it would be a strong selling point for VAG?

An ECU so smart that can adapt to the driver's style by itself? Surely it would be at top of the list in the dealer's leaflets.

[RMurphy195]

11 hours ago, eyegr said:

I don't buy this "learnt driving style" nonsense. Apart from the fact that it was used an obvious excuse for the lack of power after "the fix", albeit a cunning one, IF such a thing existed don't you think that it would be a strong selling point for VAG?

An ECU so smart that can adapt to the driver's style by itself? Surely it would be at top of the list in the dealer's leaflets.

 Or indeed the owner's manual

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Engine and Transmission control modules all operate a driver profile learning cycle software strategy that adapts to each drivers desired driving style and habits. 

 

A control module update or reset (i.e long term battery disconnection) of the control module in question reverts it back to default and it can indeed take some time to adjust to a particular drivers characteristics again, although 10,000 miles is far too much of an estimate. It would be well established within 1000 miles.

 

This is anything but new technology though. Automatically adapting ECUs have been in use for years. 

 

Many return to workshop scenarios are down to this operating procedure and feedback from customers (if they are that considerate) is usually that the car returned to normal shortly after. 

Edited 24 June, 2017 by James@Pentagon_Seat

[cypher007]

sorry I got hear late on this. if anyone asks me about the update I tell them not to have it done.

 

I don't think VW is telling the truth on this. theres just too many people getting cars back that don't work the next day. some are even being charged hundreds of pounds to have new egr and dpf's fitted.

 

others finding the car regens maybe 4 times more since the update.

 

there is even a facebook group I believe.

 

it put me off ever buying another VAG diesel. and I got my deposit back on a 2012 Audi a5 id just seen as it had been updated. I did wonder why it seemed almost as if it was going to stall at times.

 

it might be worth having it as a sticky on each section telling people to put tape over the odb port when getting the car serviced and telling the garage not to update the car.

Edited 24 June, 2017 by cypher007

[cypher007]

p.s. VW are saying out of the 500k cars they have updated only 3600 have had problems, well I guess that's alright then :( .

 

they recon they have updated about 40% of the UK cars.

 

I wonder if the update affects those that do short journeys more than those that do long.

[RMurphy195]

20 hours ago, cypher007 said:

p.s. VW are saying out of the 500k cars they have updated only 3600 have had problems, well I guess that's alright then :( .

 

they recon they have updated about 40% of the UK cars.

 

I wonder if the update affects those that do short journeys more than those that do long.

My friend has a 60-mile round-trip commute, his Audi started going into limp mode a couple of weeks after having the fix done. So maybe longer journeys just make it take onger for the problems to show?

[Ootohere]

20th February &  Paul Willis CEO VW UK told the Transport Select Committee that they had done the fix on 470,000 vehicles in the UK and they were doing 20,000 a week.

19 weeks on and that should be another 380,000 done.

470,000 + 380,000 = 850,000

 

I think Paul Willis and VW UK have Diane Abbott MP doing their numbers for them.

 

They claimed a 1% cases of those that had it done saying there were adverse affects on their vehicles, 

The thing is that VW are self confessed liars. So the DVSA figures wil be the ones to believe when the audits are done.

 

What did they recruit, call centre staff to make repeat calls, and how many extra technicians to go mobile?

 

The Fix was first rolled out in Australia, then suspended then resumed.

 

Edited 25 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[kevberlin]

Harcus Sinclair Solicitors report that client survey results for the "fix" are, in summary, as follows:

 

• 7,504 claimants have responded to our survey;
• of those, 3,925 owners have experienced a problem with their vehicle;
• 2,103 owners have experienced instances of reduced fuel efficiency;
• 526 owners’ vehicles have entered ‘limp mode’ since the fix was applied; and
• on 200 occasions, a garage has informed owners that the problems they were experiencing were linked to the ‘fix’.

These summarised numbers may not reflect the diverse nature of VAG owners, but they are in sharp contrast to the 1% dissatisfaction rate mentioned in the above post by Awayoffski.

[Ootohere]

Not that would be just those that reported to Harcus Sinclair Solicitors and they are only acting for Owners from England & Wales so no idea if they are counting reports from Scotland or Northern Ireland.

 

VW would be giving figures for those complaining to them, so 1% of 500,000 would be 5,000.

If it was 1% of 850,000 it would be 8,500 complaining of adverse affects.

 

Hopefully the Transport Secretary Chris Grayling MP is up on his briefs and can get the actual figures and the Commons Transport Select Committee and release what they are.

Vehicles out of the 1.2 million in the UK with the fix, and how many keepers / owners with reported issues.

 

As it is VW Group / Finance and others Financial Institutions Owned many of the first 500,000 vehicles 'Fixed' so VW are not reporting adverse affects on vehicles they own.

Government Agencies and Utility Companies and Fleets will have had VW Group Light goods vehicles and cars in because the 1.2 Million were not 

mostly privately owned vehicles, some were on forecourts and returned at the end of lease and had 'The Fix'.

Edited 25 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[RMurphy195]

I have made specific queries of Skoda re my own car, a Spaceback 1.6tdi 90, results are in the attached document. Please note that the response I received from the VCA is more than I expected, and I have no issue with them, only with Skoda for suggesting I need to contact the VCA.

SkodaQueries for Briskoda.pdf

[Breezy_Pete]

^ Good work.

First time I've seen VW admit to increasing EGR rates.

[RMurphy195]

12 minutes ago, Wino said:

^ Good work.

First time I've seen VW admit to increasing EGR rates.

 This page https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dieselgate/the-volkswagon-group-is-systematically-refunding-owners-for-egr-failures-after-the-emissions-fix

 

Part way down under "Why has my EGR failed ..." - I would think the fix should include an upgraded EGR, upgraded injectors, maybe an upgraded injector pump, and a few other things as well

[NeilJohnson]

Good work @RMurphy195.  At least some truth is being told about the EA189 fix.  It would be very interesting to see the torque curve before and after.  I can see why they claim maximum torque is unaffected, as it may not be.

 

Platinum Skoda Bath have washed there hands of me and as they see no problem with my car.

 

I am still going through the process with Skoda UK for the second time.  The first time they fobbed me off as there was nothing they could do. I started replying to their adverts on social media explaining my situation to everyone, so they contacted me and are looking into it again.  Unfortunately, I am sure it will go no where though.

 

I have now taken to speaking to people in supermarket car parks and garage forecourts with Skoda Rapid diesels and asking if they have had the EA189 'fix' done and telling them to avoid it if they have not.  Two owners recently were told by there dealer the fix had to be applied, they didn't know it was optional.

[TheSea]

Letter sent to Skoda UK by me.

 

Emissions fix is unsatisfactory.

 

My Skoda Superb 1.6 TDI  recently went into the Skoda dealership Bournemouth for its annual service and at the same time the omission fix was carried out. I was told that I would not notice any effect on the cars performance. My car has never had any performance or mechanical issues in the past.

This is not been the case.

I keep an accurate log of a very particular journey between two points of 60 miles on the motorway , fuel consumption is always noted and the journey always undertaken at the same speed with no other variation.

Prior to the emissions fix my Skoda would always return 70 miles to the gallon for this run and often up to 82 miles to the gallon. I have never had figures below 70 miles to the gallon.

Following the fix the resulting figures are as follows: 63, 66, 61, 62, 63, 55 mpg. (ave 10 per cent fall in mpg).

Also the DPF light has come on, on several occasions and I have found the car with the fan running when the engine is switched off, none of these faults occurred before the emissions fix.

My car has been returned to the dealership on Friday and the EGR pipework or valve was cleaned out and DPF checked.   I was told by Skoda Bourmenouth that my car was the only car to have returned after "the fix" reporting any problem.

 

It now appears looking on the Internet that following the fix, many Skoda diesel owners are noting falls in the performance of their cars or have other problems including DPF and EGR damage which relates to the fix.

It is important for Skoda to be truthful in its marketing and PR information. It must point out to owners of vehicles being recalled and state in the recall letter and through the agent at the service desk in Skoda dealerships, that the fix from the owners point is not mandatory and that some owners may notice deleterious effects on their vehicle if the fix is carried out.

With a straight forward truthful statement owners can then choose whether they wish to have the fix undertaken by Skoda or not.

Edited 25 July, 2017 by TheSea

[NeilJohnson]

@TheSea post on here if you get any response, as that would be good to know.  I am assuming that all remedial work done by Skoda Bournemouth is free of charge?  I wonder how long before they start trying to wriggle out of the 2 year guarantee they supplied.

 

It seems people are getting a mixture of results.  As my mpg has improved slightly, backing up the correspondence pdf attached from @RMurphy195 above that the fuel injection pattern has been changed - I would assume less fuel used.  As this was what the service guy from Platinum Skoda Bath delighted in telling me that it was good news and improved the fuel economy.

Hopefully you get it sorted out with no long term damage to your Superb. 

I am considering going back to petrol, but nothing from VAG.

[Ootohere]

TheSea, you posted before about the Solicitors acting for Owners in England and Wales and seem to have known all about The Fix, 

what made you allow the dealership to do 'The Fix' on your vehicle which gave a pretty amazing economy and was running OK?

 

Do you use Fuelly or some system to monitor fuel use which can be shared with the VW Group or BRISKODA members and others?