Engine problem advice

[Shiftyp9]

I have a Fabia Monte Carlo 2013 which I've owned from new and has only done 31,000 miles, always driven responsibly etc.

 

Whilst motorway travelling at 70 mph, the car independently accelerated at max revs - it was as if I'd just dropped to 3rd/4h gear and floored it.  Brake didn't do anything so I put it into neutral and pulled to the hard shoulder, whilst the engine was still at max revs and a lot of white (or very light grey) smoke surrounded the car.  I was lucky that it was a quiet stretch of motorway as it was pretty dangerous on reflection.

 

The recovery man asked me if I'd put oil in, and I felt a bit sheepish as I told him I hadn't.  He asked me again, and I continued to feel like a fool as I repeated that I hadn't ever put any oil in the car since I'd owned it.  He then told me there was TOO MUCH  oil in the engine. 

 

I had to get towed back to my local Skoda dealership, who said they drained over 7 litres of oil from the engine and that it may have damaged the engine.  Initial tests show low compression on cylinders.  They have stated that they need to take the cylinder apart to investigate (and quoted me £500 on top of the original £200 investigation). 

 

When I commented that I had never put any oil in the engine, they stated that they couldn't comment on that, but the clear suggestion was that I had.  I know 100% that I've never put any oil in my engine and no one else has access to my car.

 

The Dealership serviced it in May 2017 with an oil change but it's done 6,000 miles since then.  I can only think that they over filled it, but they're telling me that the car would never have done 6,000 miles with that much oil in.

 

Any one have any views on why the car may accelerate, effect of too much oil, etc??

 

Thanks in advance

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

 

So is this a 1.6 TDI CR

and not a 1.2 TSI Petrol?

 

Are they checking for Diesel in the Oil, another member just recently had almost the same experience.

[Tech1e]

Is it a 1.6CR?

[Tech1e]

Sounds like fuel has got into the oil which has then over filled it to the point the engine has then started to run on its own oil.

 

Gonna be a new engine in all likelyhood.

[Ootohere]

Dealership Serviced it in MAY 2018,  so if a 1.6 TDI CR did you give permission for the VW Emissions Fix to be carried out, and it now has new Engine Management, a flow device fitted and 7 litres of Oil drained after a very dangerous failure on the road.

Vorsprung Durch Technik,  they should know by now that the owner never overfilled the oil.

[Shiftyp9]

Hi all

 

It’s the 1.6 TDI CR, and it did receive the emissions fix (with the May 2017 service I think).

 

They have said that they don’t think it’s diluted with fuel, so I asked them to keep a sample.  Whether or not that sample actually came from my engine is another matter... it could be any old oil.  They have said that they’ll get it tested (although originally quoted me £78 to do it)... if the test comes back that it’s not diluted then I know someone is telling porkies!!!

 

@offski - who was the other member with the same problem?

[Tech1e]

If you haven't added oil, and they can't have over filled it then fuel is the only realistic explanantion.

 

Either way the end result is still the same.

[Ootohere]

Sorry cant find it right now, but it is in one of the Forum Sections.

2 weeks ago i remember.

 

So anyways, the dealership and employees at the dealership with the car is at would not want to be part of a conspiring to de-fraud.

They can so easily be caught out, maybe more than their jobs worth, surely they are not totally stupid.

 

So they should have the oil samples, no reason why not all 7 litres.

You can get a sample, Skoda UK / CZ can, they and you can have tested.

 

The issue is well documented and the 24 month VW Group / Skoda Peace of mind warranty will be needed it seems.

Edited 13 September, 2018 by Offski

[Ootohere]

Good, you found the thread, over a month ago, how time passes.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/453587-roomster-white-smoke-from-exhaust-engine-knocking-leading-to-engine-failure 

[Shiftyp9]

4 minutes ago, Offski said:

Good, you found the thread, over a month ago, how time passes.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/453587-roomster-white-smoke-from-exhaust-engine-knocking-leading-to-engine-failure 

Thanks Offski

[xman]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway

 

Was common a few years back with turbo oil seals failing.

 

Wouldn't necessarily believe the dealer who may be wanting to shift the blame because otherwise a large part of any goodwill would have to be paid by themselves.

 

Edited 13 September, 2018 by xman

[Ootohere]

Surely the Skoda UK ceo and the VW UK ceo have at their fingertips or on the end of a phone the number of similar issues before the emissions fix,  and since,   they compile these type of things,  after all they give a percentage of complaints and actions required to the transport committee. Both CEO,s have been with VW long enough to know the issues as cutting the expenditure to VW seems to be their mission.  Surely a dealership is not taking the hit financially over the likes of this.   

[xman]

Adrian5555 will know.

[Adrian55555]

If it can be proven its because of the emissions fix then maybe it could be claimed as consequential damage but they would need to determine which part was the culprit to have caused the issue. 

 

Ime you can tell when oil has been contaminated when you drain and take the sump off.   Having it tested and it it confirms fuel in the oil, you would still need to find how it got there. 

 

If it is JUST oil then itll be your word against theres. But i would also say that much more oil and 6k miles is unlikely and prob is fuel in it. 

 

Factory Goodwill will have to be checked on the warranty (saga/2) system once they know which component has caused the fault (if it is this theory)  

 

If no factory goodwill, the dealer you use (if it is the dealer you have always used) can if they decide to help you can put a percentage towards repair and skoda uk customer services will automatically match.  

 

 

 

 

[Shiftyp9]

Cheers guys

[Ootohere]

So Skoda, VW, SEAT, Audi will be honest on the number of vehicles suffering this. 

 

  Trust Building Measures were their manta. No ill affect on these vehicles.   Just ask Skoda how often the Diesel in the Oil issue was occurring from 

2009 -2017 with 1.6TDI CR's pre Voluntary Service Campaign,  and how many in the past 18 months or so.

They will know those numbers or they should.

 

This repeating about Factory or Dealership Goodwill gestures are nonsense really.

As to how the diesel got to the oil,  that is straightforward,  the owner or 'another' did not put it in the Oil Filler so it was injected in / over fuelling occurred, 

some will say but why. and some will say but you must prove it.

Well the 2nd biggest car manufacturer in the world actually knows how and why.

[Adrian55555]

Totally agree however they still need to determine the cause of fault. Skoda uk wont entertain unless they know whats caused it. Whether it was fuel or somebody added the oil. 

 

And to go down skoda uk contributing towards repair factory goodwill has to be requested to get to the screen where dealer/skoda uk contributes.

[Shiftyp9]

I’ve just had this email from the Dealership..

 

Thanks for your email. We have stripped down the cylinder head this afternoon and found that the bottom half of the engine has been damaged due to excess engine oil as we suspected. It would be uneconomical to carry out a repair so it is going to need an engine. I have had the oil report back from test. This report shows a 4% contamination of fuel/oil. We are going to send of a report tomorrow to Skoda technical with our findings. We have been speaking to XXX at Skoda customer care who is waiting for our technical findings. Once we get a reply back from Skoda technical we will be in a better position to advise you what we can do next. I am off tomorrow but have advised James of what we are going to do next. I will catch up with you on Monday of next week.

[Ootohere]

4% contamination.

How does the VW504 / 507 5w 30 FS LL that they filled in May of about 4 litres become 7 litres and that is just 4% contamination of diesel or some other fuel / oil ?

the 3 litres extra is what, diluted VW 504 / 507?

 

That would be some quantity of Millers Diesel Additive or something else poured into the engine rather than the fuel tank.

Edited 13 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

One possibility is that someone at the service did not drain all the oil , not change oil filter, didn't push suction tube right down.

 

Tea break, hey junior tech, joined last week, finish it off. Forget to check whats been done/ not done.  Look it up on wall chart, Tsi/tdi  they're the same right? 5.7 litres, 4.5 litres, 4.3 litres take your pick son...end of day hurry up.....

 

Unfortunately all evidence including the removed oil with video destroyed and the tick boxes on the service sheet alles in ordnung.

 

Another thought, does the oil level sensor detect overfill?

Edited 13 September, 2018 by xman

[Ootohere]

May to September and 6,000 miles.  There would have been a Oil Pressure Warning light and a mess in the engine compartment.

 

7 litre is the common thing when the Engine Oil id Drained or Suctioned out, and diesel in the engine.

If not common with the Skoda Master Tech it is with the RAC / AA / Greenflag.

 

When checking petrol in the oil some put a naked flame over the oil on the dipstick and show you how flammable.

[Shiftyp9]

1 minute ago, Offski said:

May to September and 6,000 miles.  There would have been a Oil Pressure Warning light and a mess in the engine compartment.

 

7 litre is the common thing when the Engine Oil id Drained or Suctioned out, and diesel in the engine.

If not common with the Skoda Master Tech it is with the RAC / AA / Greenflag.

 

When checking petrol in the oil some put a naked flame over the oil on the dipstick and show you how flammable.

May 2017 to September 2018.... 16 months

[Ootohere]

Sorry missed that 2017 bit in the OP.

 

So do you have the car on Variable Servicing?   

Not good really, and is it May 2017 The Fix was carried out?

 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes   Only their advice but for good reason.  

 

 

???????

Do you check the dipstick after a service, and when was the oil level last checked by yourself?

& is that with a cold engine and as per your Owners Manual at Normal Operating Temperature?

Edited 13 September, 2018 by Offski

[Shiftyp9]

Hi guys

 

after lots of investigations and photos of engine parts being given to Skoda uk/factory, I’ve just had a call to say it’s being passed to the Emmisions Team.

 

what that means going forward I have no idea (except they admit it’s linked to the emmisions scandle).

 

anyone hazard a guess as to what will happen?

[Ootohere]

They are taking their time.  I would be telling them to get a shift on and authorise the repair and 100% down to them.

 

They can not say never heard of it before, nothing to do with us gov as in the UK gov or you Guv..

 

All the best.

Edited 9 October, 2018 by Offski