Yeti DSG gearbox failure at 34K miles

[Sarah18]

Hi I’m new to the site. I’d be grateful for advice re my 2011 Yeti 1.2 DSG 7 gearbox failing at just 34000 miles  Sudden problem of judder in 1st gear, was driveable though AA fault code suggested clutch pack problem. Towed to gearbox specialist who diagnosed probable mechtronic and clutch pack failure, likely £3000 -£4000 to fix.  Told me it was driveable as only 1st gear affected but 30 mins later the gearbox ground to a halt, spanner flashing where D1 used to show. The car was worth £7.5K.  Fully Skoda bought and serviced. The dealer refuses any goodwill as “not a known fault with that particular car”....  Advice please. Is it worth trying to fix/best route/anyone in similar situation had better luck with Skoda’s ‘goodwill’ ?

 

Thankyou

Sarah18

[Sad555]

They MIGHT be not telling the truth!

[oldstan]

That's not good to hear.

 

You didn't say how long you've owned it but, presumably, you've had it it over the time in which any sort of come-back via the supplying dealer may be envisaged?

 

There will be others here to offer their thoughts but the problem you describe is close to the heart of a number of owners of that particular transmission. It's not the car specifically, but more the transmission which will be common to other models.

 

It's certainly very close to my heart as I also have 2011  1.2 DSG. Mileage is now 31258 and I've owned the car from new.

 

I, too, had clutch judder when the car was within warranty. The dealer, initially, prevaricated and fobbed me off but eventually the manufacturer and/or the dealer recognized it was becoming an acknowledged problem and they replaced the clutch assembly and carried out whatever other modifications to the electronic wizardry were called for.

 

The car has been OK since and I thoroughly enjoy driving it. It's immaculate and serves us well.

 

The above has to be seen in light of the fact that ..... because I'm very aware of the issues that have developed I treat the car with kid gloves. I feather the initial take up as I drive away from rest every single time.... I ease off the throttle when I sense the changes from first to second gear so that thew change is smooth and not hurried. 

 

For the first couple of years after the warranty expired I took out extended warranty (despite being aware that the warranty provider had implied that the DSG may not be covered at that particular time).

 

I no longer have warranty cover and, additionally, am aware that, as the car is a 2011 car, it will almost certainly not attract any "goodwill" from Skoda or the dealer although I still have the car serviced by the main dealer who sold me the car in the hope that they may 'be gentle with me Mildred' if the transmission does require a fix.

 

As the years pass, and the value of the car drops, I wonder what would happen if I was presented with the prospect of a bill like yours .... but, currently, am driving it as carefully as possible and keep my fingers crossed.

 

I love the way DSG functions and if their cars had 7 year warranties, like Kias do, I would buy another DSG equipped VAG product.

 

But until they do I can't, in all honesty, say I'll drive another DSG car unless it was leased or subject to PCP.

 

Regarding your own transmission ...... obviously you will contact Skoda UK and obviously you'll go to the top of the management tree at your dealer. But if they all refuse to offer anything then, on the face of it, you're stuffed. 

 

The problem(s) with DSG on small engine petrol engined VAG products are WELL documented .... just about everywhere. If you bought one without knowing anything about their troubled past then that really is unfortunate in the extreme .... but I honestly think they have you over a barrel.  A lesson will be learned and you might not get stung a second time.

 

Be wary, though, of having it repaired at anywhere other than a Skoda/VAG main dealer workshop - my trusted independent told me that (a) obviously, he wouldn't touch the transmission and (b) he advised against going to an independent transmission specialist because of the complexity of DSG boxes - he said it really must be done by a main dealer as they have the experience that others don't have. That might be true, or it might not but I know what I would do myself if the DSG did go wrong - i.e. I would have to bite the bullet and blame myself for not having got rid of it sooner. The mechatronic unit is, by all accounts, a complex and expensive thing and has to fitted using shims and sundry other complications (about which I readily confess ignorance)   but it is, apparently, somewhat separate from the actual clutch assembly itself - and, maybe, with luck and a following wind, you might just need the latter rather than the former ... if so your bill will be lightened, so make sure the specific fault is diagnosed (if need be, by more than one dealer) and, of course, be as sure as you can that the dealer you use is a decent one.... I suspect they might not all be).

 

Incidentally, the dealer who sold me the car in 2011 (and who I became friendly with and still speak to occasionally on the phone or by email) no longer works for Skoda but did have a DSG petrol Yeti for his wife and she loved it.  But after a while her car developed the same problem as yours and even he (who would have been  be "well in the know" got nowhere with Skoda and off loaded the car in disgust.

 

Good luck and report back with any news.

 

 

 

Edited 7 November, 2018 by oldstan

[Daveyeti]

This is a known problem with dsg 7 speed gearbox of this year. I speak from experience as I had 2011 1.2 dsg yeti some time ago. Mine had the dsg oil change that skoda said was not a recall. the same judder from 1st to 2nd gear before and after the 'not a recall'. Result new clutch pack at great expense, thankfully under warranty. Was not prepared to run dsg outside warranty so traded for manual. Good luck, make sure you let skoda know you are aware of this known problem with this particular dsg gearbox.

Edited 7 November, 2018 by Daveyeti
Spelling

[nbramwel]

I had a shudder in first gear on my 2015 DSG Fabia.  The clutch pack was replaced under warranty at about 16 months and has been OK since.  Hope you get yours sorted at a decent price.

[Ryeman]

In Australia there is an implied warranty, for a product with a 10 year design life and fully dealer serviced, which Consumer Affairs would apply to your claim.

They would ask is the failure reasonable in light of the distance and time since manufacture.......and what would the average person think.

I wouldn’t give up.

[Ootohere]

Reading on a phone so maybe missed if said,  but?   was SERVICE CAMPAIGN 34F7 carried out after May 2014?   There was a world wide recall which did not include Europe,  where there was just the service campaign.   Synthetic oil in the DQ200 changed for mineral oil and a software update. 

[Ootohere]

Ps,  different service campaign on dq200 DSG 2013-2015 is 34h5,  so a software update.  Anyone with one of those had best check if required and carried out.   It was late 2016 early 2017 before Skoda UK started that service campaign and many DQ200,s have not had it but might well need if,  it was because of a pressure and overheating issue.

[Ootohere]

Just read the part about not known fault according to someone at a dealership..    They are supposed to know,  the TPI,S. The recalls and recall actions and service campaigns,   not knowing is the issue and why now owners are having to pay out thousands because service campaign work was not carried out and some full time employees are deaf dumb,  blind or all 3.   So ask what '34f7' was for and why required,  why a world wide recall and why all DQ200 DSG in New Zealand 2009-2012 were fitted with nee mechatronic control units.   There they only needed to do a few hundred though.   Well known issue,  look at pinned thread at the top of the Fabia mk2 section. Or the general maintenance section on Briskoda.

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Offski

[Sarah18]

Thanks to everyone who’s replied here. No I didnt know about the apparent dodgy dsg7 problems prior to choosing this car. I  tried again today with my local Skoda service department manager who says that they cannot get goodwill for me from Skoda Tecnical as it’s not a known fault (that one again...) as there are no known recalls on that vehicle. I was not given this part of the vehicle history when I purchased from the Skoda dealer, but I can see now that the car had many recalls just prior to purchase in 2014 (!!?) ie Recall Actions 66F1, 24W6, 34F7 (Recall action shows x 3).  Think I was sold a dudd but if all recalls were dealt with and gearbox worked till now, I wonder if I still have a claim against Skoda. (Who are most unwilling to budge, and can’t even look at the car for several weeks). 

 

Again Im very grateful to this wonderful community’s support at this wretched time. 

 

Sarah18

[xman]

If you bought this car within the last 6 months you have clear legal rights under Consumer rights Act.

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

 

If the car was bought as an approved Skoda used car within the last 12 months it should be covered with the approved warranty, maybe longer, depending on the sales agreement.

 

https://m.skoda.co.uk/used-cars/used-cars/

 

Over 6 years old its impossible to get any Skoda goodwill (which is shared between a dealer and Skoda), according to their rules.

 

Only recourse is legal which at 7 years old would be unlikely to be successful.

Edited 8 November, 2018 by xman

[Ootohere]

@Sarah18

are you dealing in writing with Skoda UK Customer Services?  Then after a call handler a Communications manager and maybe a Resolution Manager  like Cherie Cornish?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/315115-service-campaign-dq200-dsg-oil-changeecu-update-fabias-in-the-uk/?page=8

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/293145-dsg-issues-or-even-real-problems/?page=3

 

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions

 

 

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Offski

[VAGCF]

It does make you despair when you read posts like this, where a low mileage dealer serviced car develops a problem which it really shouldn't and the poor owner often has to pick up the bill. And the constant lieing from dealers saying it's not a known problem or this is the first time they have heard of this or that problem.

 

You really shouldn't have to research a particular car that you are interested in to see if it has any common issues, it's the 21st century for gawds sake! But clearly you need to and try not to be an early adopter.

 

Before buying the Yeti I nearly bought an Octavia 1.8 tsi because I was unaware of the problems that afflicted that particular engine - what a mistake that could have been! I was an infrequent user of motoring forums but having had Passats etc. which were usually diesels and rarely petrol then I never tripped into the tsi engine problems.

 

It really is damning that we are getting frightened (I know I am) of keeping a car, particularly a DSG equipped one, beyond the warrantee period. And as for buying second-hand! A friend, who never buys new, doesn't know what he is going to do when his faithful old Golf gives up the ghost. He will be looking at the age range when so many problems have arisen, potentially very expensive ones. 

 

Sarah, as has been said, I would steer clear of an independent gear box fitter, particularly as I doubt you will save much, if anything. 

 

[Ootohere]

Parks of Hamilton part of a big Motor Group with all the gear but often not much of an idea or skill had @Sittingbull's Mk2 Fabia in, 

one they had fitted a replacement engine too with a faulty DQ200 DSG.

They managed to get a new 'Mechtronic Control Unit', fit it, mess that up and wanted to charge for a 2nd one,  charge the customer, then had to get a 'contractor' to fit the new clutch packs.

All in the Fabia Mk2 Section Links. 

 

So as for 'Maindealers and master techs and all the gear and training, that is a bit of a joke. Service Managers unless they are trained technicians should be talking with 

people that do know about issues if they have just arrived at Main Dealerships from where ever.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444617-7sp-dq200-dsg-failure

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/456352-dsg-clutch-weeping-oil

 

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Offski

[greendragon54]

It is a known problem. The mechtronics unit on my 1.2 TSI, 2016 Yeti (with 6200 miles at the time) failed at the end of September this year. The dealer that it was towed to also denied that it was a known problem. Whilst waiting the 12 days it took to get the parts and fix, I looked things up on this forum and elsewhere.

There was a software fix released 2 months before my car left the factory which did not appear to have been applied. Though why a car should be allowed t o leave the factory with a known problem is something that has not been explained to me.

The dealer I bought the car from assured me that they check for any updates whenever they service the car and, looking at th he VAG site, my car shows as not needing any updates... though, after having a replacement mectronics unit fitted and configured, it shouldn't.

Fortunately, the work was done under the warranty. 

[J.R.]

5 minutes ago, VAGCF said:

 

It really is damning that we are getting frightened (I know I am) of keeping a car, particularly a DSG equipped one, beyond the warrantee period. And as for buying second-hand! A friend, who never buys new, doesn't know what he is going to do when his faithful old Golf gives up the ghost. He will be looking at the age range when so many problems have arisen, potentially very expensive ones. 

 

 

And that was the problem that faced me when it was finally time to replace my faultlessly reliable Octavia 1 with 325000 miles on the clock, I was looking for a newer up to 2004 identical model in good condition with lower mileage, hard to find. I settled on an identical colour and Elegance spec MK2 with low mileage because it was significantly cheaper than the few MK 1's that were advertised meeting my requirement, time will tell if it has been a good move.

 

I have certainly had to up my game repair and diagnosis wise and move on to VCDS and do a lot of learning which is why I frequent this forum so much at present which I had never needed in 13 years with the older vehicle. Ironically had I bought it before the old car would never have been scrapped.

 

What I am reading about the newer vehicles scares the K-rap out of me, time will tell if this vehicle has been a good investment like the predecessor, it has a lot of creature comforts, I like all of the minor detail changes, it feels very similar but frankly is disconnected from the road in such a way as I might as well be in a driving simulator.

 

If electronic problems cause me to sell it then i am going to go back 30 odd years and buy a Toyota BJ40 diesel jeep, wont be as practical, no comfort, no economy, will break down because of its age but at least I can fault find and repair it.

[VAGCF]

My mates current Golf tdi is a 2005 and has done well over 100k. and still drives well. He sold the previous one at 250k. to a colleague and it was still going at 350k.

 

He doesn't really have much truck with modern cars, the Golf was his wife's. He also has a Moke and for daily drivers has had an MGB GT, an original Mini and an Imp. As said, he can fix those himself.

 

I've already been giving him the doom and gloom with regards to EGR valves etc. and "fixed" Euro 5 so as well as moving to petrol will probably be away from VWG as well. No doubt other manufacturers have their problems as well though!

[Ootohere]

Ford certainly do with Power-shift gearboxes and early 3 cylinder engines and have been called out and finally hold up their hands to it.

VW Group are never that way inclined.  Deny all, refuse to accept responsibility for any lemons, people have short memories, then social media happened and they are stuffed.

[Sad555]

21 hours ago, Ryeman said:

In Australia there is an implied warranty, for a product with a 10 year design life and fully dealer serviced, which Consumer Affairs would apply to your claim.

They would ask is the failure reasonable in light of the distance and time since manufacture.......and what would the average person think.

I wouldn’t give up.

How do SKODA/VAG cope with having to deal with it  then.

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Sad555

[Ootohere]

http://choice.com.au/transport/cars/general/articles/vw-recall-2013

The VW Australia CEO had to grovel. 

Say sorry over the carry on with the likes of Fuel Injectors they had denied were an issue.  Then more groveling over the Emissions Scandal.

They did the DQ200 DSG Recall.  That was after denial over issues, In some cases of DQ200 DSG Clutch problems they were quick to fit new boxes not just MCU's.

 Introduce Breather Mod type 2 on Twinchargers and start doing Oil Squirter Updates.

Recently VW Australia lost a Class Action on 1.8 & 2.0 TSI engines early demise.  

The Authorities make them assume the position in lots of cases.

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Offski

[Sarah18]

On 07/11/2018 at 18:45, oldstan said:

That's not good to hear.

 

You didn't say how long you've owned it but, presumably, you've had it it over the time in which any sort of come-back via the supplying dealer may be envisaged?

 

There will be others here to offer their thoughts but the problem you describe is close to the heart of a number of owners of that particular transmission. It's not the car specifically, but more the transmission which will be common to other models.

 

It's certainly very close to my heart as I also have 2011  1.2 DSG. Mileage is now 31258 and I've owned the car from new.

 

I, too, had clutch judder when the car was within warranty. The dealer, initially, prevaricated and fobbed me off but eventually the manufacturer and/or the dealer recognized it was becoming an acknowledged problem and they replaced the clutch assembly and carried out whatever other modifications to the electronic wizardry were called for.

 

The car has been OK since and I thoroughly enjoy driving it. It's immaculate and serves us well.

 

The above has to be seen in light of the fact that ..... because I'm very aware of the issues that have developed I treat the car with kid gloves. I feather the initial take up as I drive away from rest every single time.... I ease off the throttle when I sense the changes from first to second gear so that thew change is smooth and not hurried. 

 

For the first couple of years after the warranty expired I took out extended warranty (despite being aware that the warranty provider had implied that the DSG may not be covered at that particular time).

 

I no longer have warranty cover and, additionally, am aware that, as the car is a 2011 car, it will almost certainly not attract any "goodwill" from Skoda or the dealer although I still have the car serviced by the main dealer who sold me the car in the hope that they may 'be gentle with me Mildred' if the transmission does require a fix.

 

As the years pass, and the value of the car drops, I wonder what would happen if I was presented with the prospect of a bill like yours .... but, currently, am driving it as carefully as possible and keep my fingers crossed.

 

I love the way DSG functions and if their cars had 7 year warranties, like Kias do, I would buy another DSG equipped VAG product.

 

But until they do I can't, in all honesty, say I'll drive another DSG car unless it was leased or subject to PCP.

 

Regarding your own transmission ...... obviously you will contact Skoda UK and obviously you'll go to the top of the management tree at your dealer. But if they all refuse to offer anything then, on the face of it, you're stuffed. 

 

The problem(s) with DSG on small engine petrol engined VAG products are WELL documented .... just about everywhere. If you bought one without knowing anything about their troubled past then that really is unfortunate in the extreme .... but I honestly think they have you over a barrel.  A lesson will be learned and you might not get stung a second time.

 

Be wary, though, of having it repaired at anywhere other than a Skoda/VAG main dealer workshop - my trusted independent told me that (a) obviously, he wouldn't touch the transmission and (b) he advised against going to an independent transmission specialist because of the complexity of DSG boxes - he said it really must be done by a main dealer as they have the experience that others don't have. That might be true, or it might not but I know what I would do myself if the DSG did go wrong - i.e. I would have to bite the bullet and blame myself for not having got rid of it sooner. The mechatronic unit is, by all accounts, a complex and expensive thing and has to fitted using shims and sundry other complications (about which I readily confess ignorance)   but it is, apparently, somewhat separate from the actual clutch assembly itself - and, maybe, with luck and a following wind, you might just need the latter rather than the former ... if so your bill will be lightened, so make sure the specific fault is diagnosed (if need be, by more than one dealer) and, of course, be as sure as you can that the dealer you use is a decent one.... I suspect they might not all be).

 

Incidentally, the dealer who sold me the car in 2011 (and who I became friendly with and still speak to occasionally on the phone or by email) no longer works for Skoda but did have a DSG petrol Yeti for his wife and she loved it.  But after a while her car developed the same problem as yours and even he (who would have been  be "well in the know" got nowhere with Skoda and off loaded the car in disgust.

 

Good luck and report back with any news.

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully and helpfully. I’ve had the car since 2014, from the dealer. It’s taking me a while to navigate the site. Will let you know.

 

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Sarah18

[Sarah18]

13 hours ago, Offski said:

Reading on a phone so maybe missed if said,  but?   was SERVICE CAMPAIGN 34F7 carried out after May 2014?   There was a world wide recall which did not include Europe,  where there was just the service campaign.   Synthetic oil in the DQ200 changed for mineral oil and a software update. 

Thank you. 34F7 apparently carried out in 2014 before I bought it. Skoda tell me this was a change “in the quantity of oil” not the type....? And software change. Sorry I’m not up to speed with a lot of the jargon, but would like to know what a DQ 200 is and does it apply to the 1.2 petrol tsi dsg7 I’ve got? Thank you.

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Sarah18

[Ootohere]

@Sarah18   Problem right there if you are being told nonsense about '34F7', 

 The Mineral Oil was put in instead of Synthetic & a Software Update.   So you can not trust a word they are telling you.

It was oil type not quantity.  Because of internal corrosion and a preventative measure.  Plenty Clutch Packs failing was another issue, but the Mechtronic Issue is still their fault.  Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Materials or Fluids / Software failings, hence they changed the DQ200 and fluid in 2013, and that went wrong as well hence '34H5' required for some DSG's.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-uk-why-we-dont-need-dsg-recall

 

 

The 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG in your Yeti is a DQ200. Also used in the Superb, Octavia, Fabia, Roomster, VW's, SEAT's & Audi's under 250Nm Torque like 1.2, 1.4, 1.8 TSI's and 1.6TDI's.

'34F7' was needed on ones with Synthetic oil from the factory 2009-2013.

& '34H5' 2013-2015,  not on all though. 

 

Many cars with DQ200's had the Service Campaign done wrongly.  

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/314923-fabia-recall

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Offski

[Ryeman]

Could this be a bit of old sexism?.

A ‘girl’(?) getting the brush off, as a first response?.

I thought VW were trying to deal with bad publicity these days.

[oldstan]

Sarah did say she wasn't sure what DQ200 meant, and hasn't. as far as I can see, been given a simple explanation.

 

It's no more than a number that identifies the particular type of transmission fitted to your car. In short, it's just the "model number". 

 

DSG boxes in VW/Skoda/Seat cars that are fitted with smallish, petrol engines have this type of DSG box..... it's called a "dry clutch" which just means the clutch part (as opposed to the gearbox part) runs dry - i.e. the clutch doesn't run in a bath of oil. Bigger engined models have a clutch than does, actually, run in oil.  Not to be confused with the gearbox itself, which always, routinely, has oil in it.

 

It's generally accepted that the dry clutch is more troublesome than the wet type.

 

As I implied above, I, personally, would have to think very hard before using my own money to buy another DSG equipped car.  My two pennor'th is that I would be inclined to look for manufacturers that offers a longer warranty - and in doing so suggests that they might have more faith in their products hence offering 5 or 7 years warranty. Examples would include the obvious Kia (7 yrs) or Hyundai (5yrs) or Toyota (5yrs).  There are others (Ssangyong now offer longer warranties).  Vauxhall USED to offer a "lifetime" warranty. It had a few clauses and get-outs but, on the face of it, it suggested that Vauxhall had faith in their cars.  It lasted a couple of years before they withdrew it.  Guess who will never buy a Vauxhall? (there are other makes I wouldn't want to spend my own money too, Vauxhall  just happens to be one of them).

 

By the way, one of the contributors who replied to you above said  ....  "So as for 'Maindealers and master techs and all the gear and training, that is a bit of a joke. "

 

So where is our enquirer supposed to go to have it fixed then?   If she's not advised to use a main Skoda dealer, then where, precisely, is she supposed to go?  How will Sarah know that a particular independent repairer isn't going to hash the job up and leave her in the lurch? At least with a Skoda main dealer if the job went horribly wrong she would have some sort of recourse to Head Office.... and she would know that Head Office won't pack up overnight and move to the next door railway arch.

 

Well, that is one opinion but isn't a statement of fact.  I did say you would do well to enquire of more than one dealer before committing to repair. Another contributor did give you a clue when he said (with a tongue firmly in cheek) that  ... " They MIGHT be not telling the truth! "    and what he was thinking is, as you will have gathered, that the particular dealer you approached may not be acting in your very best interest. That could well be an understatement. 

 

Not all dealers are crooks...............

 

.............Well, actually, to a degree, they probably are .... but some will be less crooked than others and there will be a technician who will be able to do the repair competently.  I think it's inappropriate to tar them ALL with the same brush.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 November, 2018 by oldstan