Sticking Rear Drums

[timey74]

Just after some advice from other fabia owners, i currently own a 61 plate fabia 1.2 HTP and i have been having a problem with the rear brakes these last few weeks. First thing in the morning when i leave for work the rear brakes are sticking. When reversing or moving forward there is a little resistance when moving and you get a slight clunk from the shoes disengaging then its fine for the rest of the day, it only seems to happen when its been sat there overnight or all day say for 10-12 hours. The drums have been stripped, cleaned and serviced and the mechanic said there is plenty left on the shoes. He even showed me the work that he did before giving the car back to me, he is like that with all repairs - he shows you all the old parts he has replaced and stuff like that. I am presuming its becuase of the weather but the sticking is still there, does anyone else experience this issue as the only thing to do next is replace everything at the back :-(

[Ootohere]

These other threads are posted on here in the last few days. There are many identical threads over the past years if you do a search.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/443913-rear-drum-brakes-sticking-on 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444199-sticky-handbrake-in-the-morning 

Edited 29 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[timey74]

many thanks just read up on those other posts, damn annoying. I think i will try your suggestion of some bricks and leave the hand brake off and in gear as its flat at home and my place of work. Its it the design and weather that causes this?? i used to own a focus that had done 130,000 miles and was 14 years old and i only think i ever had to do anything like this with the rear brakes all i ever did was have the cleaned out and greased up every other year when it went in for a service and mot

Edited 29 January, 2018 by timey74

[punyXpress]

Try applying the handbrake a little when getting to the end of your journey.

But be sensible - just enough to warm ( and dry out ) the drums & shoes )

[timey74]

2 minutes ago, punyXpress said:

Try applying the handbrake a little when getting to the end of your journey.

But be sensible - just enough to warm ( and dry out ) the drums & shoes )

 

thanks for the advice the handbrake goes up 2 clicks so i may try 1 and then leave it in gear and see how it goes. Like i said on my first post the mechanic cleaned the drums and serviced all the parts and there was plenty of depth left on the shoe so it really annoying that it is still happening

[Ootohere]

The Brick thing was only semi serious, but there are those that do leave vehicles chocked in winter and in hilly areas.

 

as it is with Electric Handbrakes these Old School type tricks seem to be coming back in favour, 

like Steering Wheel locks as Electrics in cars are providing less secure cars.

 

Skoda might have to sell Blocks of wood with a rope through as a nod back to their 'Heritage', 

Something like used to be used to stop Carts & carriages and the likes running away. 

Or just sell rocks to keep in the boot, in a nice Skoda Branded Bucket.

 

Or they could just fit decent Parking / Emergency Brakes.

Edited 29 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[timey74]

yep they could fit decent parking brakes after owning 5 other cars for many years the longest one was the focus for 9 years i never ever had a problem with rear brakes sticking when left overnight even for days on end poor show skoda.

[mgcvk]

Our Fabia has very sticky rear drums. Stickiest of any car I have owned. Left it for a couple of weeks and it took some hammer blows to drums via a block of wood to unstick. Won’t leave it now for more than a couple of days with handbrake on. Particularly in wet weather.

[timey74]

18 minutes ago, mgcvk said:

Our Fabia has very sticky rear drums. Stickiest of any car I have owned. Left it for a couple of weeks and it took some hammer blows to drums via a block of wood to unstick. Won’t leave it now for more than a couple of days with handbrake on. Particularly in wet weather.

yep sticky as hell  its only been happening the last few weeks since all the wet weather here in north wales, been fine for the last 5 months. cannot belive you had to use a hammer to get yours to unstick

Edited 29 January, 2018 by timey74

[Ootohere]

That is not uncommon. 

It is still an issue right up to now where Skoda still fit rear drums, like with some Up!MiiCitigo.  

 

There is a new VW Up! GTI and it comes with rear drums, it will be interesting to see if any long term drivers of those have the age old VW Group issue.

The professional road testers / journalist seemed to have no issues road testing the media cars which must have been parking overnight in Monaco.....

[timey74]

thank you everyone for the advice and the fact i dont appear to be the only one with this annoying issue. I left the car in gear and put the handbrake on just one click and everything is fine this morning no sticking still cannot belive how sticky they have been though, never had it on a car before this. Also just wanted to ask other forum users that have had this problem did they get rid of the sticking?? and how?? did they need new shoes or drums or both??

Edited 30 January, 2018 by timey74

[xman]

Getting ridiculous now with our 63 Fabia, gonna have to have a go this weekend, weather permitting, will report back findings.

[timey74]

57 minutes ago, xman said:

Getting ridiculous now with our 63 Fabia, gonna have to have a go this weekend, weather permitting, will report back findings.

 

thanks xman, will make interesting reading when you look

[xman]

As promised, my report.

Whipped drums off today. Easier than I thought. 

 

Background:

63 plate Fabia 88,000 miles drums never been off (dealer did offer to adjust the cable for £50, then reduced to £30 at 2nd free service, no thanks, I'm happy with 4 clicks)

 

Car does mainly motorway miles so brake wear is not heavy, front pads less than half worn, shoes even less. However corrosion is still an issue.

 

Initially:

Cleaned out black dust in drum and around shoes/backing plate with a soft paint brush. Not all that much dust, far less than I expected.

 

What I saw:

Brake shoe condition excellent, drum internal condition very good, small lip. Braking surfaces very good, very very faint images of shoe rivets visible in the metal surface, like an extremely faded photo. No sign of rust on the perfectly flat friction surfaces.

 

So what causes the sticking?

I don't think the problem is caused by rusting on the friction surfaces. The surfaces were too perfect

 

After spending several minutes looking and levering with a screwdriver, my conclusion is its simply a combination of complex design and corrosion. The parking lever pivot was dry and stiff, on the nearside the lever also rubbed against the inside of the shoe metalwork, again stiff.

 

The parking lever works in conjunction with the top auto adjust bar. Some grey paste (lubricant) was evident here at the parking lever end, but had mostly dried to a lump and some corrosion was evident there, initially I thought it was sticking here

 

The cable was sticky on the nearside and didn't like returning to the release position. Its a complex system of levers and springs and not very well made to boot. The return springs located on the cables don't do a good job they are far too weak to overcome any stickiness caused by corrosion.

 

What I did:

So after cleaning the drum and using grit 80 paper to rough up the friction surfaces, I very carefully applied a bit of mos2 penetrating oil at all the relevant pivoting/moving points. I couldn't get to the cables, that requires a total strip down.

 

Time will tell if I’ve fixed it, but of late most mornings it was sticking, especially if it had been damp or raining so I'll know within a week.

 

Solution:

Skoda should do a strip, clean and lubricate at every major service. But they don't. So do it yourself every second year. Took me about an hour for both sides. Only skill needed is find the auto adjust wedge (use your phone torch through one of the stud holes) and push it up with a medium flat blade screwdriver to release the shoes so the drum can come off without fouling.

 

You'll also need a large rubber mallet and some penetrating oil if the drums haven't been off in a long time!

 

I've been putting this job off for ages, but its far easier than I thought. 

 

Hope this inspires some of you to give it a go.

[YS53]

We have an 09 fabia and our O/S rear brake tends to stick on,I was expecting it as I had seen some comments about fabia brakes previously.I am living with it until nicer (hopefully) weather.We always leave it parked in gear at home with handbrake off - but use the handbrake when parked anywhere else.

Our other car is an 02 Polo and we also leave that parked in gear at home because guess what :),I do have some auxiliary springs to fit to the Polo brake operating levers to assist them 'off' (disc brakes with external levers so easy to get to ) - but once again a summer job.

[KernowMaid]

Hubby and I always leave our cars is gear wherever we park, with handbrake on just one click.   Ever since he came out one morning and found his car had crept down out of his drive, across the road and came to rest against neighbour's wall.  Never trust handbrake alone, even on the flat ... 

 

Edited 3 February, 2018 by KernowMaid

[Ootohere]

Problem with that being, there is not that much engine compression with some engines and in gear does not mean the car holds there, 

and 1 click is not enough to have a secure parking brake, hence way people also turn the wheel into the kerb.

 

Try the car in 1st gear on a slope with the engine off with no hand brake and see if it does move.

[xman]

Be careful if your car has a cam chain. Leaving in gear on a slope without the handbrake can turn over the engine, even if only half a rev or so.

 

If the engine turns backwards, the tensioner is forced back and can release and if the chain is stretched, the chain becomes loose and can  detach or jump the sprocket when you restart. A particular problem with pre 2013 1.2tsi engines.

 

So, if you must, park in first gear if the car is nose down on a hill and in reverse if parked nose up.

Edited 3 February, 2018 by xman

[YS53]

That is why I put in my earlier post that we only leave the handbrake 'off' when parked at home (reasonably level) - anywhere else the handbrake is applied and left in gear if parked on any slope,the rear brakes have not (so far) stuck on whilst parked away from home.

The only other place I would leave the car with the handbrake 'off' is in a long term car park (airports etc),they are usually fairly level.

[2ndskoda]

No one has ever mentioned that so many people these days take their cars to a car wash. These places use very high powered pressure hose/washers, and absolutely flood all areas around the wheel arches. The rear shoes get soaked, and the dust mixes to form a goo.

 

I would also comment that many of the so called 'brake cleaners' introduce additional problems as the fluid is absorbed by brake linings. The sensible way is to use a large brush + a Dustbuster type vacuum cleaner (Plus face mast)

 

Use emery cloth on the drums swept surface to remove 'grease deposits' AND please please please do not commit the sin of playing around shortening the brake cables until after all the correct drum adjustments are made and a full brake is achieved.

 

During my many years in the trade, the number one DIY sin we faced were people shortening brake cables.This resulted in the mechanical leverage and geometry being totally negated. This usually was the case when a MOT was due, and the owner thought that a long pull on the handbrake lever would bring a test failure - hence a 'quick fix' (wrong) by shortening the cables.

If you must play with the cables - just make sure that they are free to fully return to the off position.

 

Lastly (if I remember rightly) is there some sort of rubber plug that fits into the back-plate?  Power washes would soon take them out.

Edited 4 February, 2018 by 2ndskoda

[xman]

There was little evidence that the brake dust had formed much if any goo in my case. It was fine loose dust, mainly deposited/centrifuged out into the far inner circumference/corner of the drum, where it obviously finds it a struggle to find any way out. There was also a bit sitting in the bottom of the lip in the back place. A couple of minutes wafting with a soft paint brush and it was soon cleared. I didn't see any rubber bungs in the back plate, I'm pretty sure there aren't any. Which means my dealer and Skoda UK lied (yet again) when they said they check the linings by removing a rubber bung in the backplate (in answer to how do they check the rear brakes at a service).

 

Agreed, don't adjust the cables without good cause. Again my dealer wanted to do this cardinal sin for £50....what?.....ok £30 to you sir, to get 4 clicks down to "Skoda specification" 2 clicks. No thanks....

 

Interesting comment about the brake cleaner.

[xman]

3 hours ago, YS53 said:

The only other place I would leave the car with the handbrake 'off' is in a long term car park (airports etc),they are usually fairly level.

 

Yes, that and in tight on street parking slot where you might leave the car for overnight or longer. Nightmare scenario, rear brakes stuck on solid and you can't move far back and/or forward without hitting something. So applying a lot of throttle is not really a safe option. Happened to my daughter in Aberdeen......help....I'm stuck Dad.....

Maybe I should carry that heavy rubber mallet as a release tool (simply clever or not? )

[rum4mo]

Maybe one good reason to have alloys with big holes between the spokes, carry a good bit of wood and any old hammer, poke wood in and hot end of wood with hammer!

 

I agree about the bungs in the back plates, they seem to have been left out, which is fair enough as it seems that modern VW Group cars don't get any proper brake servicing work down during "small" or "big" services, normally only a slight comment about potential issues and an opportunity/suggestion to re-book the car in for some brake servicing - so no need for a convenient shoe lining wear aperture as it will be you that is paying for the strip down to look-see.

 

I raked up some gravel on the side of my driveway for when parking cars out of the garage, now I have a nice "stop" to hold any of my cars out of gear and without handbrake on.

 

Edit:- the only issue with that "stop" of gravel is, when the driveway is covered with 6" of snow and I clear it with a biggish snow mover, it does hurt a bit when I hit that area of frozen gravel!

Edited 4 February, 2018 by rum4mo

[timey74]

thanks guys for all your feedback, since only going one click on the handbrake and leaving it in gear no more sticking. I removed the rear wheels and hubs today and inspected everything myself and its spotless in there and plenty of depth left on the shoes and the drum shows no visable signs of major rust so i cannot for the life of me figure out why they are sticking so badly.  As xman said

Quote

 

I don't think the problem is caused by rusting on the friction surfaces. The surfaces were too perfect

 

After spending several minutes looking and levering with a screwdriver, my conclusion is its simply a combination of complex design and corrosion. The parking lever pivot was dry and stiff, on the nearside the lever also rubbed against the inside of the shoe metalwork, again stiff

 

 

Poor design on skodas part i think as i have owned a punto, astra, agila, nova, focus and clio over the years and never have i come across rear brakes sticking so badly

[xman]

Time will tell I said. And a few days after cleaning drums and lubricating linkage, the drums still stick on! Not as bad, so degree of  stickiness reduced a bit by lubricating the pivot arm, I'm thinking.

 

That just leaves the brake cables which I mentioned didn't seem to want to retract easily. And it reminded me, our 09 Fabia suffered badly from drum brake stick. But it doesn't at all now. Why? Then I remembered that as I didn't want to remove the drums, what I did was spray penetrating oil into the cables at the handbrake lever end, using a long tube and some kitchen roll paper to form a bit of a seal, hoping some oil would run down the inner core. Seemed to have worked. So I try that next week when I've got access to the car.

Will let you know if how it works out.